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US 18th Infantry Regiment Company D Guidon help please

Article about: I recently picked this up but cannot determine the date of when it may have been used. The rifles are very different shape than others that I have found online. It is blue, measures 25 1/2 b

  1. #1
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    Default US 18th Infantry Regiment Company D Guidon help please

    I recently picked this up but cannot determine the date of when it may have been used. The rifles are very different shape than others that I have found online. It is blue, measures 25 1/2 by 17 3/4. It is worn in places and faded and I believe made of cotton.
    When I say different from ones I see online I am talking about the rifles, the Stocks on each are wider at the bottom and the barrel at the end is more like an M1903 Springfield. Cannot find any tags inside. Its double sided. Any way to tell when this may have been used? Thanks!
    US 18th Infantry Regiment Company D Guidon help please
    US 18th Infantry Regiment Company D Guidon help please
    US 18th Infantry Regiment Company D Guidon help please
    US 18th Infantry Regiment Company D Guidon help please
    US 18th Infantry Regiment Company D Guidon help please

  2. #2

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    I do not like the flag myself. You are correct about the rifles but the shape of the flag also bothers me. Maybe something made up privately. Others will be along that have more knowledge than I.
    John

  3. #3

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    I agree with John,

    This is not an official US Army Guidon, the official size would be 1 foot 8 inches on the flagstaff and 2 feet 3 3/4 inches from the flagstaff to the end of the swallowtail which would be forked 10 inches. Numerals and letters on the guidons are rounded block type 3-1/2 inches in height unless other wise specified.

    This appears to have been a privately made Guidon, perhaps as a reunion piece for the unit..

    I don't have my earlier Army Regulations in regards to Army Guidons with me at the house. I left them in my office at the museum and I am currently on leave until the 30th of November. When I get back to work I can check the pre-WW2 regulations in regards to the Springfield rifles, but either way this does not appear to be an official unit guidon..

    Smitty

  4. #4
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    Thanks guys for the replies so far, I was thinking the same thing as being a home made piece as I couldn't find one like it anywhere. I still think its pretty neat piece and hope to possibly learn more about it. I guess thats what caught my eye is that its quite different than others I have seen. Something about the letters and rifles got my attention.

  5. #5
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    Ok got it today and the measurements are close. The ones the seller gave me were off.
    On the flagstaff its 18 1/4 inches, from the flagstaff to the end of swallow tail its 27 1/2 and the letters and numbers are
    3 1/2 inches. And the swallow tail is forked 10 inches. I think because its cotton and very faded it was outside a lot and has shrunk just a little and would measure out to the regulation sizes mentioned as it is too close to a couple of the measurements.
    Here it is in comparison to my Desert Storm Guidon.
    US 18th Infantry Regiment Company D Guidon help please
    US 18th Infantry Regiment Company D Guidon help please

  6. #6

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    Nice flag but I am still going with my original assumptions.
    John

  7. #7
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    Reminds me a lot of this one found on the net, a presentation Guidon given to GEN. CLARENCE R. HUEBNER when he retired. Note the shape of the 8 and the Rifles. Maybe mine was made and given to someone as a presentation piece? Probably will never know.

    FROM THE ESTATE OF GEN. CLARENCE R. HUEBNER, COMMANDER OF THE 1ST INFANTRY DIVISION IN THE FIRST WAVE AT OMAHA BEACH Good pair of items presented to Huebner at the end of his career, in honor of his service with his first unit, the 18th Infantry Division, includes: a blue wool bunting guidon, 14 1/2" x 10", bearing a pair of crossed rifles in white fabric on both sides, topped with the numeral "18" and with the initial "I" below in white fabric, signifying company "I" of the U.S. Army's 18th Infantry Regiment. The flight edges are trimmed with a 2" white braided fringe, and a 55" wood shaft with a carved wood finial is inserted through the hoist. The shaft bears a small aluminum plaque, bearing the presentation inscription: "General Clarence R. Huebner From His Old Outfit Company 'I' 18th Infantry 10 August 1950", the year he retired from military service. The shaft is further fitted with a metal support rod stitched to the top of the guidon, although these stitches have come partially undone. The guidon shows some minor soiling, with some minor wear visible to the wood shaft, else very good. WITH: Steel-cased Zippo light, 2" x 1 1/4", with the lid engraved "Lt. Gen. C.R. Huebner" on the obverse, representing his post-World War II rank, and the body engraved "17 Jun 10 To 4 Dec 16" on the verso, representing his period of service with the 18th Infantry Regiment. The bottom of the case bears a script-style "Zippo" mark with "Pat. 2517191", indicating manufacture circa 1955-57. The case shows some scratches and wear overall, with some oxidation to the lighter mechanism, else very good. Two pieces. CLARENCE R. HUEBNER (1888-1972) was the American general who took command of the 1st Infantry Division, popularly known as the "Big Red One", in early August of 1943. He commanded the division during the D-Day landings on June 6, 1944, where it was the first force to face the Germans on Omaha Beach, and he joined his men on the beach the same day. The division was instrumental in the breakthrough following the battle for St. Lo and in foiling the German counteroffensive at Mortain. After the Allied breakout in Normandy, the division advanced rapidly, arriving at the German border in early October of 1944, where it was committed to battle at Aachen, which it captured after two weeks of heavy fighting. After experiencing heavy fighting once again in the Huertgen Forest, the division briefly rested but soon returned to counter the German offensive at the Battle of the Bulge in December, 1944. In January, 1945, Huebner was named commander of the V Corps, which he commanded in its advance to the Elbe river, where elements of the corps made the first contact with the Soviet Red Army. By war's end, the division had advanced into Czechoslovakia. Following the German surrender, Huebner served as the Chief of Staff for all American forces in Europe, and in 1949 was named the final military governor of the American occupation zone in Germany. These items originate directly from General Huebner's estate and is accompanied by a letter of provenance signed by a direct linear descendant.

    US 18th Infantry Regiment Company D Guidon help please
    US 18th Infantry Regiment Company D Guidon help please

  8. #8

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    I like the presentation piece angle..

    Nice looking guidon either way..

    Best regards

    Smitty

  9. #9
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    Thanks Smitty and John. I asked the lady I purchased it from if she has any other info about it. She is an Antique Dealer on the West Coast, if she has anything to add I will post it up.
    Thanks again for taking the time to look and respond!

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