What kind of regimental British badge with a double-headed Russian eagle?

[SMERSH]

Professionals, please tell me what kind of regimental British badge with a double-headed Russian eagle?

Pronounced attitude towards the Russian Empire

[paulp4180]

I would say its not British, as its not the British crown, looks Russian to me.

[Watchdog]

I would say its not British, as its not the British crown, looks Russian to me.

I agree.
The crown is similar to the one known as the "Queens Victorian Crown" so I can see the implication but it is in fact an Imperial Russian crown. However, although the British 1st (Kings) Dragoon Guards (later the Queens Dragoon Guards) had a similar eagle it was actually the Austrian eagle of Franz Joseph and the 14th Kings Hussars used a Prussian eagle, I don't recall any British regiment using the Imperial Russian eagle on any insignia.

This one is clearly an Imperial Russian eagle with the central St George and the Dragon motif. St George is the patron saint of Moscow and quite a few other places/things including England but I am pretty sure this is Russian. Look at the (?) maker mark on the reverse. Looks pretty Russian to me and it is definitely not British.

I'm not sure it is actually a cap badge from the fixing means on the reverse. It looks like a closed loop as if for a belt or strap shaped item.

It does appear to have some age and if genuine (I'm not saying it isn't because I don't study Imperial Russian badges) it is worthy of further research.

I hope this helps.

Regards

Mark
PS Why do you think it is British?

[SMERSH]

Colleagues, thank you for your opinion. Let me clarify some details:

1 - this sign is definitely made in England.
2 - this sign was exactly made by the English master.
2.1 - the Russian imperial crown is not depicted correctly - it is made almost like the English one
2.2 - the Russian coat of arms is a double-headed eagle, also stylized (i.e. made in the image and likeness, and not as it should be - only foreign masters did this). The chain with the Order of St. Andrew the First-Called is missing on the coat of arms of Russia. There are no coats of arms of Russian provinces on the wings.
3 - the English master stylized everything well + he used a purely English wreath - pay attention to the flowers in the wreath! (The thistle, the floral emblem of Scotland, also features in Scottish & British heraldry through symbols, logos, coats of arms and on British currency.)
4 - sign fastening - on a belt or on a tape (closed fastening)
5 - manufacturer's mark - some local or regimental workshop - English! (mark is not Russian)
6 - is 100% original!

At first I thought that this was an anniversary regimental badge - The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards (Carabiniers and Greys) is a cavalry regiment of the British Army, and the senior Scottish regiment.

But I cannot verify it.

I hope for your help dear experts.

[spotter]

I cant identify the badge but the marking on the slider is i believe a british victorian design registry mark , these use letters and numbers to show the date etc.. if you have a look on google for Victorian Lozenge Mark there are quite a few pages/sites with guides to decyphering them

[SMERSH]

Super!
It seems that we have begun to understand a little bit with this sign!
Thank you very much dear "spotter"!

And so, let's try to take a closer look at the stigma (from top to bottom, from left to right - we see):

"I" - Table 1 - Type of material or class - "I" — metal - OK!

"29" - day of month - OK!

"9" - parcel number - OK!

R - ???

U - Table 4 - Year of Manufacture: 1868-1883 — "U" - 1874 - OK!

"C" - month - "C" — January
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resume: metal, produced January 29, 1874, lot number 9

Now it remains to figure out which unit this sign belonged to? When, by whom and for what purpose was it used?


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I tried to analyze the events of 1874.
The first thing I found - was that the meeting between Alexander II and Queen Victoria took place in 1874, when Emperor Alexander II came to London to visit his daughter Mary, who had married the second son of Queen Victoria, Alfred?


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In 1874, the son of Victoria and Albert, Prince Alfred, and the daughter of Alexander II and Maria Alexandrovna, Grand Duchess Maria, got married in St. Petersburg. The groom of the beloved daughter of the Tsar-Liberator devoted his life to naval service and commanded the Mediterranean squadron of the British fleet. Their acquaintance took place two years earlier in the city of Darmstadt. The wedding took place according to two rites - Orthodox and Anglican, and prayer books and flowers for the celebration were sent personally by Queen Victoria.

The wedding of Grand Duchess Maria Alexandrovna and Prince Alfred of Edinburgh on January 23, 1874 in the Great Church of the Winter Palace

[SMERSH]

Does anyone know more about this sign?

Maybe someone has a different version of the purpose of this sign?

[rbminis]

Please upload your photos correctly, do not use outside photo hosting sites.
Ralph.

[paulp4180]

It is definitely 100% Russian... Romanov crest I believe

The Russian Double Headed Eagle, also known as the Coat of Arms of Imperial Russia and the Romanov family crest, was adopted in the 15th century, when Russia became the "Third Rome." The two heads represent the dual sovereignty of the Tsar, both secular and religious. The image of St. George slaying the dragon, an ancient symbol of Russia, was combined with the double headed eagle of the Byzantine Empire to create the arms.

Read More about the Russian Double Headed Eagle

[Watchdog]

I cant identify the badge but the marking on the slider is i believe a british victorian design registry mark , these use letters and numbers to show the date etc.. if you have a look on google for Victorian Lozenge Mark there are quite a few pages/sites with guides to decyphering them

The Victorian registration mark is interesting (not my area) but that does not make it a British badge just one made in Britain and as I said, the fixing is totally wrong for a British cap badge or anything else I can think of. Whatever it was mounted on it would have been horizontal like a strap.

There was quite significant migration from Scotland to Russia in the 18th century, mostly military personnel and some sources quote current numbers of Russians of Scots descent at between 1 - 2 million. Many of the original immigrants were of noble or high status families including names like Hamilton, Drummond and Leslie amongst others. So it might be that someone integrated into the Moscow elite might have used an emblem with the Imperial eagle and St George symbol for Moscow (but not Scotland as that would be St Andrew) together with Thistles in the wreath for Scotland which was made in Britain. Who knows?

It certainly is not for the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards as they were only formed in 1973 so if it were theirs it would have to have been made later than that. One of their antecedent regiments was The Scots Greys with whom my father-in-law served but I am pretty sure this is not one of their items.

Interestingly the Greys did fight at Balaclava in 1854 but just a few years later Tsar Nicholas II became their Colonel in Chief in 1894 a post which he held until his death in 1918.

This item has got me intrigued now so I will do a little research and if I find anything I will post it here.

Regards

Mark