WWII Paraglide Officer Garrison Cap Patch?

[etomilitaria]

Hi there - could someone tell me if this is a WWII era paraglide patch for an officer or is it post-WWII?

Many thanks in advance!

[Rakkasan187]

ETO,

This is a beautiful patch, I don't have my reference books available as I am at work, but I think this may be a post war German Occupation made piece. It is really nice regardless. I may be wrong, but this does looks German made. I will have to look later at my reference books to give you a more definitive answer.

Smitty

[Rakkasan187]

ETO,

I was able to look at some of my reference books "Emblems of Honor" Airborne Insignia of US Army Airborne Forces WW2 to Cold War by Kurt and William Keller and what I am now seeing is that this patch looks to be a Post War Japanese Occupation Period patch. Unfortunately, the book does not show the back of the one that is an enlisted version of the same insignia.

I am going with my gut instinct that this is a Japanese occupation piece and not a German made one.

I look forward to others opinions on what they think. I have quite a few variations in my collection but have not seen one like this before.. Simply Stunning

Smitty

[etomilitaria]

Hi Smitty - thank you very much for your reply. I really appreciate it. I made a similar post on the USMF and the consensus on there was that this was a very convincing fake.

I would still be interested in seeing a picture of the Japanese occupation era patch you mention. Are you able to share a picture from the book?

I have not been able to find other examples like my patch (fake or genuine) and it makes for a nice display piece if nothing else.

Thank you again and regards from Scotland!
Rob.

[Rakkasan187]

Glad you were able to get a better consensus from some of the other Airborne collectors.

Here is the image from the Keller Brothers book.

I was focused on the blue pattern on the front and sadly there is no image of the back. I was also looking at the similar sharp angle of the tail wing stabilizers on the Japanese version as well as the version you posted.

No-one mentioned on the US forum if this could have possibly been Japanese Occupation but Bill Scott and Kurt A both know their patches so I will concede that I was incorrect on this assessment.

Smitty

[Phill Lockett]

Gidday Rob

I have seen this on USMF and it must be confusing to you as it "kinda looks WWII or post WWII" variant.

So I want to put in context on how I see insignia.

Its not US schiffli fully embroidered Cap badge which were authorized and officially used by the US Army 1942-to when they stopped using the Abn AG Garrison Cap and I beleive the 82nd was the last to use it(?)
So that means its unauthorized (not made in US) but possibly overseas.

If thats the case there are litterally hundreds if not thousand variations, from seamstress to sew shops , hand guideded , machine guided South East Asia to Europe , where ever American Airborne has deployed.
Now saying that , there are specific embroidery construction and styles with regards to threads cotton, silk, rayon, polyester,hybrid threads etc, base material , sewing technique etc....

So with that we can say its not US,Japanese (any SEA countries) , German,Italian from WWII to 1955 period based on the embroidery, construction and known examples.

It is also not computer generated , its made on a schiffli embroidery machine and using similar punch tape card system similar what was used by the US from WWII to today but probably from Eastern Europe or current Vietnam.

Now its a well made patch some thought has gone into it but as in USMF thread there are red flags namely the buff coloured thread below is repro 325th Inf (Pentomac era 1955-65).

1950's Airborne Patch - LETS GO - 325th Infantry 1st Airborne Battle Gp - #.127 | eBay

Note the buff coloured eagle and the reverse side white stitched border , yes embroidery is differant but Im showing you what is out there that can mislead collectors also if its cheap and no other collector has bid on it and hasnt rocketed in $$$ is also another indicator.

Go for what are known examples , check the forums , get the Keller volumes and look at more examples , like we kmow there are tonnes of known variations , I would concern myself with those ones.

I would also add there are collectors on USMF that have been collecting US Airborne WWII/Post WWII-40/50 years that would have hundreds(1000) of examples in their collection and they would put their hands up if it was a known example-which again is another indicator.




Phill

[etomilitaria]

Hi Smitty and Phill. Thank you both very much for taking the time to respond. I really do appreciate it. Your thoughts and insights are very useful. I am mainly a helmet collector and have wanted to buy a few patches to compliment a few named sets that I have. This particular patch has given me an excellent education at a very reasonable price :-).

I am very pleased to learn that there is a healthy and helpful patch collector community out there and I hope this thread will be of some use to other collectors who may be branching out into collecting patches.

I will be keeping this patch and putting it on display. It is good enough quality to be representative and now comes with good discussion!

All the best, Rob.

[Rakkasan187]

Rob,

I am glad that Phill was able to contribute and add his expertise and knowledge to the topic. He is one of the most informed members when it comes to shoulder patches and their methods of manufacturing. It can get very confusing regarding the types of sewing and the types of machines (or lack of machines) used to produced the insignia.

@ Phill,

Thank you once again for providing such scholarly information.

Best reagrds to you both

Smitty

[Phill Lockett]

Hi Rob

You can buy original standard WWII US made Cap Abn badge for $US20-30,82nd SSI $US50-80,101st $100.0-120.0 and thats the basic patch , then you start getting into $$$.

If your helmet is a complete original WWII era than an authentic WWII era patches and Cap badge is better to have.

We collectors can be very !@#$ when it comes to displays original v repro items.

I helped a friend out on his web site , where he used reproduction and or modern era US patches , he re vamped his site and brought original WWII era US , British and Canadian cloth patches.

Below is a good site to look at original WWII Airborne and shows prices.

WWII Items For Sale: See original WWII artifacts for sale - Top Kick Militaria & Collectables

Thanks Smitty much appreciated for the kind words

Phill

[etomilitaria]

Hi Phill - the helmet I am wanting to display this with is an M1C that was used in 1957/1958 by a member of the reactivated 101st (reactivated as the first "pentomic" division) so a 1950s patch I think would be more suitable. Are they hard to distinguish from WWII produced examples?