Hello Steve! nice to have you ring in on these. I know you did not question any Ordnance, but wanted to show you, and other members, the kind or items that were also found in China, most probably Northern China/Manchuria area. These items, and more, were all from the same seller, along with the 3 caps, & one Type 90 helmet he had. I got 2 of the caps, and the helmet. All the finds are sold now. Who knows when he will get more. HaHa, maybe when they are done making, and aging the reproductions.
OK, sorry, First the problem is, I like to talk a lot, and it carries over to my email, and posts. I am very detail oriented, and ramble sometimes when I make posts, I try to be as accurate as possible, but do make errors sometimes.
I am new to forums, I understand better now that if my posts, and in fact, that if all posts are not *Read Very Carefully* especially if people just look at the pictures, (not that you did that) they can get lost in what I am saying, and the details. And then there is also the language problems with some members.
I did not say I washed the caps, the seller did.
I do not touch things like these, although I did steam the havelock-flaps on the cap, so they would lay better for display, and added the tie strings, and re attached the metal star. So I do not think that I harmed, or ruined the pieces in any way by doing this. Some may think so.
In the very beginning of thread I said, if it was ground found, I thought it must have been in some kind of box or container. There is rust where the star was. If the star broke off the cap as he states in the listing when he tried to wash it, then it must have been attached all this time.
There is rust on the inside and outside where the small ring was attached. If you look close at the pic of outside at the 7 O' clock position from the holes where the ring went through, there is a rust mark that matches perfect with the star.
Do you know how famous the Chinese are for laundry?
"Chinese Laundry" Maybe they got the rust stains out? HaHa,
Now I think "that" is funny.
Note* No Offense to any One
I really did not think I would get a response questioning the authenticity of these caps. Just look at them, and the other I posted that is slightly different. Why would they spend the time to make such a good fakes if they were going to sell them for next to nothing? If they are fake, they are the best fakes I have seen. These 3 caps are the only ones ever offered by the seller, and only one's I have ever come across.
If traitor cap is fake, and they made one cap only, don't you think they would try to get a fortune for it? If they took the time to make more than one cap, or many of them, don't you think someone would have seen these "traitor caps" before?
Yes I do completely trust this seller. I will not mention name, but is you have ever looked for Japanese items on the infamous ePay site, (the one run by idiots now) you would probably know who the seller is. He has been a seller for at least 5-6 years that I know of.
I know exactly what you mean about your feelings of "buying things from China" This is rare to find an honest militaria seller there, but there are a couple.
That's good though, I was hoping maybe for a fairly robust thread, because I also, like you, have never seen this exact havelock cap before, and definitely have never seen any of these "Traitor" caps.
As said these are much earlier than WW2, and I think western collectors do not know too much about these early uniforms, and Exactly what Japanese army procedures, different variations of caps, uniforms and meanings, there in Manchukuo/Manchuria in very early 30's. We are all pretty familiar with their other procedures & regs. of violence and foul play.
I wanted to know more concrete facts of this odd hat, if anybody had some possibly. Maybe I can try Banzai or other sites
Might probably be a place to get more info on this "traitor cap". I also am having my seller friend try to find out more, or maybe find something that is written about them, that is from the period.
If these stories and theories prove to be true, I think this traitor cap, is a fairly significant find & artifact.
Regards, Steve "R"
P.S.
*** Steve, I have read some threads started by you, before replying. You do excellent beadwork, very nice looking, high quality. I heard that you have to be even less % now, to be considered a Native American? I have always liked NA items, I have some nice old items that my parents collected in the 50's-70's. Maybe I can send you some pics?? I could use a little help with a couple items, if you have the time, and knowledge of them. Can I PM you about this?
I like the post you made about the biker/chrome & LW helmet, and the first I believe, 2 Nambu's. HaHa, I have been riding since 8-9 yrs old. I still have my '87 fxrs. I bought it new. It's the only vehicle I ever bought brand new, runs/looks good still. Pretty good riding here in FL. I have seen many chromed nazi helmets, grenades etc. over the years, never a paratroop good save!!! great helmet!! I mean really great helmet, looks like textbook example. In fact all your items do. I like the KM swordfish hat also, very nice!
I also have good stories of ugly bartenders
, VFW's, garage and estate sales, and the treasures found. Isn't America great??
Regards, Steve "R"
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