Japanese heavy shipboard helmet

[NARVIK]

This helmet is in very nice condition. I have no information on where it was found, but I suspect it was a Royal Navy pickup.

[mcmike]

I haven't seen many IJN helmets; I notice the badge is a very different color than the helmet. Was this normal? Was the cloth liner standard navy issue, or did they also have leather liners?I am restoring a couple of IJN helmets that were reused and repainted after the war, and am trying to be as faithful as possible. Luckily, they left the original gray paint under the green overpaint.

[Watchdog]

What a cracking "war souvenir"!

I know absolutely nothing about Japanese militaria so can have no opinion as to authenticity beyond the observation that it "looks right". I don't have any Japanese items in my collection but for as long as I can remember it has been on my agenda to add at least a couple of representative pieces from another one of the belligerents. This would most likely be bayonet, Shin Gunto (nothing exotic just a standard arsenal made NCO type would be great) and of course a helmet. This one would be perfect for me

I guess you assume it is a RN capture because of wherever it turned up and the name Cowper suggesting the "trophy taker" was at least from one of the English speaking nations and although it is originally from the Old-English and is a derivative of Cooper (the trade of barrel maker) it is not uncommon in North America for obvious reasons.

I would love to know more about these helmets but I have always shied away from the wildly varying prices asked by dealers regardless of condition. I have seen IJA helmets priced at £400 all the way to £800 for similar items with no rhyme or reason that could even be explained by supply and demand. I have never seen an IJN helmet of any condition in UK!
I would not dream of asking you what it cost you but can you suggest where such a piece might fall on the scale of similar German items?

I am also intrigued by the two holes in the shell because they look as if they belong there. Do they have a known purpose?

You have "set me off on one" with this helmet. Thanks for showing

Regards

Mark

[Gunto]

Air/vent Holes .

[Nick Komiya]

The official designation within the navy for that model was Type 3 Steel Helmet.See here.

[SHEMP H]

Hi Mike, yes they did use leather liners, here are a couple of photos of my stenciled anchor IJN helmet,please excuse the bad photos I'm no Mathew Brady,


Bill

[Nick Komiya]

SHEMP, what tells you that your lid is a Type 3 and not a Type 2 (Type 90)?

[adachi]

Many collectors and even some books erroneously refer to the late Type 2 "stencil anchor" helmet as the Type 3 helmet which may have caused the confusion

[Nick Komiya]

Type 3 or Model 3 Navy helmets were introduced between 1932 and 1933 and were the navy's version of the Army's close combat Type 98 helmet employed later for raiding enemy bunkers. Though they got nicknamed "heavy shipboard helmets" by collectors, like in this thread, surviving documentation seem to point to the same motive of development as the army's, which was close combat usage. Thus, a 1939 Navy document specifically calls these Model 3 helmets models for the NFL, exposed to closer proximity fighting.

Unlike the army's Type 98 helmet, the Navy Model 3 development is hardly documented, but development occurred concurrently with the army's version, so it is reasonable to assume that the motives behind the development were the same or similar.

If one had to make a case solely based on surviving navy documents, one would have to conclude that the Model 3 was intended for Naval Land Fighters and the Model 2 (Type 90) was for the rest of the navy. Thus the shipboard helmet was the standard Type 90, not the Model 3.

As explained in another thread, all navy helmets were gunboat grey before June 1939, when they were all ordered to be repainted to earth brown. Grey examples do not signify shipboard use, but simply that it was a pre-39 decommissioned example.

I did not want to write this, as the American fetish for things NLF would probably react sharply to such news about a NLF helmet design, but what I say is all documented fact. However, the "Model 3=NLF Model" equation is drawn based on only one document and I would normally want multiple sources saying the same thing to be sure.

I will end this with some factual statistical data for you to consider. A report dated 20th September 1945 made by the Navy's Meteorological Dept. includes the 3 types of helmets within the listing of items to be surrendered to the Americans. It says 45 pcs Model 1 helmets, 55 pcs Model 2 helmets and 20 pcs Model 3 helmets.

[SHEMP H]

SHEMP, what tells you that your lid is a Type 3 and not a Type 2 (Type 90)?

Nick, I was simply answering McMikes question on wether IJN helmet liners were standard cloth or wether they were also leather, I never mentioned anything about helmet type! I was trying to help him, after all isn't that part of the reason for this forum and also why we belong to it.


Bill