Naval parade saber....

[26Intrepid]

Hello forum,

I just received the last sword from an auction I bid on a few weeks ago. I have a couple questions in regard to some markings on the guard. I hoping Guy, Nick, or Bruce May have knowledge of. The first would be the an “N” inside a diamond shape symbol. The other will be, or what appears to be, 3 kanji characters?

The blade, handle, and scabbard (Saya) all appear to be in very good to excellent condition.

Thanks,
d

[Bruce Pennington]

D,
Nice one! Thanks for the picture of the stamp. I didn't have a good one! Richard Fuller says it's seen on Navy dirks, but didn't know the name of the shop. So with your Navy dress saber, we are starting to see it was someone making Navy bladed weapons. But, unfortunately we don't have a name.

I'll put it to one of our guys that has an old book of wartime weapons shops and see if he can find it.

[26Intrepid]

Thanks Bruce... yes, I was thinking the “N” may’ve been the maker, but not exactly sure. I had to pull the magnifying glass out for the kanji characters. I didn’t think I’ve ever seen one etched like this, or may never have never noticed it...

The saner really is in nice condition and has been very well taken care of all these years.

D

[Athena]

Hey Guys im a bit late on this thread but I also have a N stamp although its on a Army or Police parade saber

[ghp95134]

Oohhh ... I’m late as well!!!

Name scratched on the inside base of the guard:
柳井
Yanai

— Guy

[26Intrepid]

Thanks Guy! Was that normal? I’m assuming the name of the person issued the sword?

[Nick Komiya]

I'm not a collector, and don't even own a single book about swords, so I am frankly surprised to learn that the identity of the make with the "N" in the diamond hallmark is yet unknown, as examples seen on this forum so far have been old, high quality examples, suggesting a maker with fairly high profile.

Even as an outsider, I can tell you that Nakano Shoten is the obvious number one suspect in this case, as they were one of the big four names to supply Suikosha, the navy officer's uniform outlet. Those sword dealers were Suya, Kobe, Matsuura and Nakano Shoten.

Unless Nakano is already known to be tied to a different hallmark, this is no case for Columbo, I think.

[Bruce Pennington]

Unless Nakano is already known to be tied to a different hallmark, this is no case for Columbo, I think.

Chris Bowen has identified another mark for Nakano. So this one is still a mystery. Now, we are starting to learn/suspect that a couple of other shops changed marks during the war, so maybe this could be the case for these two. But no one has been able to pin it down yet.

[Nick Komiya]

That logo would be read as "Yamayo", nowhere close to "Nakano". It is an Edo era practice of marking ones goods. I strongly suspect that Nakano used a logo more tied to their business name by WW2 like "N" in a diamond.

Likewise, Echizenya whose logo we discussed recently was known earlier for having a similar logo, as shown below, which would have been read "Yamachu", after Chushichi, the first name of the founder, who wanted to show that his heart was always with his folks back in the mountains of Echizen. This Edo era style of using first name initials as logos certainly became confusing in the Showa era, as it bore no resemblance to Echizenya the name they went by. That is why I thought they must have chosen to use 越 instead which tied directly into their business name.


Here's another maker logo based on the owners first name, whose modernized logo features an "S" instead of a "サ".

[Nick Komiya]

Here are ads from Nakano Shoten from 1920, 1921 and 1922. Back then, they did indeed use the Yamayo trademark, but in those days they were still promoting themselves only as a leading brand in bullion insignia and accessories.

I would guess they must have switched to the N in diamond hallmark in the 30s, as they got more heavily into swords. Old logos also work restrictively like type casting that Hollywood actors like to free themselves from, so a logo change can help open new markets. Did that myself with Toyota and Lexus in the 90s. I could not find later ads from Nakano, so case will stay open till an ad from the 30s or 40s is found.