Two Japanese Bayonets

[Bobby]

Hello: Two bayonets that I have not come across before and would be interested in any feedback.

The first shown is a training bayonet with an unusual pommel end. Has some sort of notch cut into the rear of the pommel. Two pictures attached. I cannot find anything similar in Labar's book. Is there any reason for this notch? Could it have been done post WWII?

The second bayonet is a Nagoya Diamond without any visible series number, serial number, or proof marks in the pommel end. One picture attached. The pommel does not appear to have been ground. Again, I cannot find any similar bayonet in Labar's book. Does the lack of pommel end markings indicate anything about this Nagoya Diamond?

Thanks!

[Bobby]

Thought I would circle the area on the training bayonet with the notched out area. Please note that notched out area goes right up to the release button.

[Rescue190]

Interesting training bayonet. I do not have any explanation for the notch. I would like to see the other bayonet complete with scabbard.
John

[Bobby]

Rescue190, this bayonet is described as a bright blade. If that is correct, I believe that it would be a variation "C" based on Labar's nomenclature. But not shown in his book. He lists LB-124 variation A, LB-125 variation B, and LB-126 variation D. He does state that four variations of Nagoya Diamonds were made. But that the "bright blade, straight crossguard variation can not be confirmed and may be a cut down of the earlier hooked variation". I have a picture of the crossguard but does not look like it has been cut down. The lack of markings on the pommel end is interesting, if it is not due to someone grinding them off. Not sure why anyone would do that. See below for additional pictures. Not the best, my apologies. And as to being a bright blade, I may have the opportunity to see it better this weekend to confirm.

[Rescue190]

It looks like a blued blade without much finish left, IMHO, made by Howa Jyuko under Nagyo supervision. The stamp on the pommel could have been missed or light strike and wore down. It does not look ground off to me either and if it was they did a good job with a belt sander instead of a grinder. The scabbard is earlier as it still retains the bulb on the tip. Nice bayonet!
John

[monkeyboy]

Is there any reason for this notch?

Most likely simply to ft something it wasn't originally intended for.

Could it have been done post WWII?

Could be wartime or postwar. Who knows. All kinds of goofy stuff has been done to WWII collectibles since the war.

The second bayonet is a Nagoya Diamond without any visible series number, serial number, or proof marks in the pommel end. The pommel does not appear to have been ground.

The pommel looks scrubbed to my eyes. I addition the rest of the bayonet, at least the steel, has been heavily "cleaned". We're seeing patina over bright steel leftover from the heavy cleaning. The scabbards a mismatch, either a Mukden or Loom Works variation. Though I'd guess Mukden. Look for an inspection mark on the throat piece.

[Bobby]

I'll definitely be checking to see if it is actually a blued blade. Then would just be an LB-126. The notch on the pommel of the training bayonet is really odd. Not sure why Bubba would do something like that.

[Kiipu]

The first shown is a training bayonet with an unusual pommel end. Has some sort of notch cut into the rear of the pommel. Two pictures attached. I cannot find anything similar in Labar's book. Is there any reason for this notch? Could it have been done post WWII?

If this training bayonet is still at hand, can you take a picture of the overall view with the scabbard beneath? Is the pommel forward of the notch higher than the rest of the tang? As for the notch, I have no idea why it was done.

[Bobby]

No, unfortunately I don't have access to the training bayonet anymore.