WOII Katana. Help discovering if Authentic and what type

[Stu W]

Hello Kevin,

I see you have recently joined the forum. Welcome.

There is no doubt that the sword you show is a rather crude Chinese reproduction. In fact they make much better examples so if you plan to collect military swords it would be best to post photos for review before spending more money.

It might also be in your best interest to start a new thread for each of your other swords and have them reviewed. Get some confirmation and peace of mind or begin the housecleaning depending upon the results.

Regards,
Stu

[Kevin Pellicaan]

Thank you all for the for the advice and tips. Not to mention the warm welcome.

Looking at some of the old bayonets that I got from my grandfather I figured that this would be rather mistreated blade. soldiers sword instead of an officers sword due to the machined blade. well..shit happens I will learn from the mistake and I will still enjoy the sword. Maybe try to "restore" it a bid. The blade should be ok with the sharpening stones that I have. It will still become a decent piece to start with and to hang against the wall. But in the future I will post before thinking of buying one

Thanks again for the help all

[stegel]

Hi Kev and welcome to the forum,

At first glance i would have agreed with the other members, however i am not entirely convinced that this is a modern chinese fake.
Some extra pictures of the combat cover at the hanger (where it would lace up), the blade tip and the tang would help to make my decision.
The snap button stud on the scabbard appears to a period item, not the same as on modern fakes.
There were swords made in occupied territories and some very poorly constructed last ditch variants, it is possible this could be one.
The ito handle wrap is also better than most fakes i have seen.
Perhaps i'm wrong, but i think the extra (and clearer) pics could help to confirm.
Cheers
Ern

[BOB COLEMAN]

Hi Kev and welcome to the forum,

At first glance i would have agreed with the other members, however i am not entirely convinced that this is a modern chinese fake.
Some extra pictures of the combat cover at the hanger (where it would lace up), the blade tip and the tang would help to make my decision.
The snap button stud on the scabbard appears to a period item, not the same as on modern fakes.
There were swords made in occupied territories and some very poorly constructed last ditch variants, it is possible this could be one.
The ito handle wrap is also better than most fakes i have seen.
Perhaps i'm wrong, but i think the extra (and clearer) pics could help to confirm.


Cheers
Ern

With all due respect, there is no need for further pictures as this is a textbook low end Chinese fake. The serial number on the blade in itself is enough to indicate it is a fake. Japanese officer swords NEVER had a serial number engraved or stamped in to the blade. Other legitimate points have also been raised in this thread about the lack of qualtiy.

[Gnork]

Hello,

Recently a acquaintance of me showed me and offered my a same type of Shin Gunto sword. It could be its twin brother! He told me that he bought it years ago from a collector. It did not cost much because the wrapping of the handle, was damaged, only 10% left. I still doubt if it is real. I have read the discussion and understand that there are so many “fakes” going around that it is some times hard to tell.

I agree with al the contra’s to the sword. But he did some research and I recently asked some questions in a different forum. Because we could not place the Japanese character on the sword.

We found out that, if it is real, it is not a officers sword but a NCO Shin Gunto (in Dutch onderofficier zwaard of sergants zwaard). The marking, as I recently found out, is from the Nagoya Arsenal Department of Control.

The absence of a menuki (ornament), the fact that the handle is wrapped in leather and the material under the wrapping is cotton and no ray skin, are reasons to doubt the sword.

The collector from who he bought the sword, told him that: Not al swords were produced in Japan. The fact that this could be a late war production could explain the crudeness of the blade.

No time to polish the blade. No original materials left. Not metal handle because they needed the aluminum for aircraft. Not copper or bras menuki, the needed it for making bullet casings. I recently read a story (do not know if it is true) that at the end of the war, Japanese soldiers were issued with bamboo bayonets.

Just produce swords the Americans are coming.

[BOB COLEMAN]

Gnork-
Welcome to the forum. Without pictures, it is impossible to make any assesment of the sword you are describing. If you can obtain and post some, we certainly can give you an educated opinion on the sword and what it is.

[Gnork]

Hello,

Thank you for the quick response. Here are some pictures of the “NCO Shin Gunto”. It has the same looks as the sword on the pictures of Kevin Pelicaan.

In this case the leather wrapping on the handle is gone, we have put in in a box. It is so deteriorated that you can not handle it without breaking it. Same goes for the leather on the scabbard.

The markings, as am was told, are from Nagoya Arsenal.

You have to understand that a lot of Japanese military items in The Netherlands come from the former colony Indie, now called Indonesia, witch was occupied by the Japanese during WW2. After the war people took a lot of souvenirs home.

Unfortunately I have no knowledge of Japanese swords so to me it is a riddle.

The collector and antiques dealer claimed it was an original. Sold about five teen years ago.

But even the experts can be fooled.

[Stu W]

It is not, in my view, an NCO sword in any way, shape or form.

If you want to see what an NCO sword looks like take a moment to view the Type 95 NCO thread posted above. Examples of the Nagoya Arsenal mark are also shown. Here is a link to that thread.

IJA Type 95 NCO Sword Info


As to your comment ...

"You have to understand that a lot of Japanese military items in The Netherlands come from the former colony Indie, now called Indonesia, witch was occupied by the Japanese during WW2. After the war people took a lot of souvenirs home."

I'm sure that those of us who are familiar with Japanese militaria of any sort are quite aware of the connection between The Netherlands and Indie.

Regards,
Stu

[BOB COLEMAN]

A view of the blade tang would be benificial. The markings on the blade are unusual and would be of a concern. It is definitely not an NCO sword as Stu mentioned. Before calling it an out and out fake, I would like to see the tang and also the tsuba, which is the hand guard.

[BOB COLEMAN]

The more I look at the images, the more convinced I am that this is another Chinese fake. Japanese officer swords were never marked with arsenal stamps. The hi or grooves, are poorly cut and I am sure this is another fake out of China.