WW2 Katana

**Chopperman** · 07-10-2009, 12:37 AM

I have a similar style sword only mine has a brown leather
covered wood scabbard. I was told that mine was worth
around 500 Euro.

**lach470** · 07-10-2009, 02:03 AM

I agree that the sword has a machine made blade. I have such an example that is also maker marked on the tang (mine is from Hirotada). Looks good to me too. My example also has the leather combat wrap. The scabbard is a very light type of wood (not sure what kind) that has been painted black and the leather wrap surrounds it.
I think the price is reasonable. Actually - I'm finding that Japanese items seem to be getting more and more expensive nowadays.

Cheers!

Rob

**Darren Lillington** · 07-10-2009, 05:06 AM

When i first saw this the first thought to come in to my mind was a late issue type 98 Shin gunto but on closer inspection i have a feeling this may in fact be one of 2 things.

An NCO Shin gunto which were very poorly made or a chinese copy.

The blade is machine made, yet there is a hamon, Looks to me to be an acid etch hamon which is a fairly recent technique and very common among chinese fakes. The mounts- ashi, tsuba, fuchi ,kashira as well as the semegane also appear to be fakes, so much so that i would bet money on it.

This is neither an officers Shin gunto or an NCO's gunto, not only are the fittings wrong and fake but were never meant for this type of Gunto witch whoever made it obviously meant for it to look like an old Type 94 or 98.

Sadly there are many chinese fakes around, the owner of this piece may or may not know that he/she has up for sale, nothing more than incorrect copy of a type 98.

Please be careful when looking to buy any Japanese sword as there are many fakes out there and one really has to know a great deal about them to spot the fakes.

regards-

Darren

**BOB COLEMAN** · 07-10-2009, 05:16 AM

by Seibei

When i first saw this the first thought to come in to my mind was a late issue type 98 Shin gunto but on closer inspection i have a feeling this may in fact be one of 2 things.

An NCO Shin gunto which were very poorly made or a chinese copy.

The blade is machine made, yet there is a hamon, Looks to me to be an acid etch hamon which is a fairly recent technique and very common among chinese fakes. The mounts- ashi, tsuba, fuchi ,kashira as well as the semegane also appear to be fakes, so much so that i would bet money on it.

This is neither an officers Shin gunto or an NCO's gunto, not only are the fittings wrong and fake but were never meant for this type of Gunto witch whoever made it obviously meant for it to look like an old Type 94 or 98.

Sadly there are many chinese fakes around, the owner of this piece may or may not know that he/she has up for sale, nothing more than incorrect copy of a type 98.

Please be careful when looking to buy any Japanese sword as there are many fakes out there and one really has to know a great deal about them to spot the fakes.

regards-

Darren

I must disagree with your assesment of this sword. I seriously collected Japanese swords for over 26 years. During that period, I owned 100's of military mounted swords. The pictures of the blade can not tell us anything. The mounts are definitely IJA and not the late mounts. I see nothing in the mounts of this sword that remotely resemble what is coming out of China. There were thousands of IJA officer's mounts left in Japan when Japanese sword buyers were purchasing blades in the 70's and 80's. The possibility of a Chinese blade put in old mounts is certainly a possibility. However, there is not enough photographic evidence to make that determination.

**Darren Lillington** · 07-10-2009, 06:18 AM

I too must disagree, I would never jump to a conclusion and judge a sword on an inkling or suspicion alone.

I too have spent many years studying and collecting japanese swords, i started out studying Nihonto, made friends with a very talented Tosho(swordsmith) in japan and have learnt a great deal over the years and later turned to studying my original passion, IJA swords, weapons, armor, uniforms etc etc.

I am far from an expert and have said before i never claim to know everything but i am sure of it, this is a fake and not a good one.

The mounts are clearly not original to me, the shape, style and detailing is either wrong or missing. The blade itself is a definitive fake, the nakago with its oddly placed double mekugiana. The unusual sori for this type of Sword and last but not least the hamon witch after referring to notes and pictures i have backs up my claim of an acid etched blade.

I hate to see these fakes as much as the next person and do not like to jump to that conclusion but thats exactly what i believe this is.

Regards-

Darren

**Nifartachi** · 07-10-2009, 09:37 AM

Are these any help?

**lach470** · 07-10-2009, 11:29 AM

Hmmmm, I can see that temper line in the last set of pics. That shouldn't be there on a machine made blade....and the rayskin looks etchy but it could just be the colour/age. I too am not an expert! That said - I made sure when I was purchasing my example that had been in three seperate collections before it came to me.

Tricky business!

Rob

**Darren Lillington** · 07-10-2009, 01:55 PM

Chinese copies of varies japanese swords, Not just shin gunto's have been popping up allot and they are getting better at creating that aged look on their Fakes that for some can be hard to tell the difference.

Now, im sure there will be those that disagree, thats fine but this is a definitive fake and ill explain why.

The Mounts-

After looking over the pictures its clear to me that these mounts are wrong, they are shaped differently, are missing detail and are clearly manufactured differently by looking at the the picture magnified you can see this, reminds me allot of the cheap chinese wall hanger swords you can buy almost anywhere these days.

The samakawa is plastic, I used real samekawa (rayskin) that i got from japan in a restoration project i was working on last year.

The Tsuka ito has been wrapped wrong, of all the Authentic IJA swords I have seen and held the tsuka was very tightly and correctly wrapped as it should be.

The saya is the wrong color although i admit that is not really an indication this being a fake as its common for these swords to have been repainted after being brought back from the pacific.

last but but not least, the blade-
The Sori is wrong for the type of blade, the kissaki is not of japanese style and the blade witch is machine made has a hamon(tempered pattern) Classic acid etch may i ad, a common technique used by the chinese in their fakes.

**BOB COLEMAN** · 07-10-2009, 04:20 PM

Better pictures clarify the issue. It is definitley a Chinese blade. My apologies. Not only the blade but also the shandle shape is poor.
There actually were sword made in China during the ar. The quality was poor. They were evidently made either to serve as a temporary replacement for an officer's broken sword or issued to officers of foreign contingents fightine with the Japanese.