Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1.Klasse mit Schwertern K&O ”second type made of zinc”.

**rbminis** · 10-08-2019, 03:13 AM

I believe the "dot" can be seen in both examples in post #8.
The frosting, as well as the wear on the die, and the wear on the actual badge, could account for the difference in appearance.
It appears that the "dot" is actually part of the oak leaf outer edge.
Ralph.

Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1.Klasse mit Schwertern K&O ”second type made of zinc”.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 10-08-2019 03:13 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**MAP** · 10-08-2019, 03:27 AM

by rbminis

I believe the "dot" can be seen in both examples in post #8.
The frosting, as well as the wear on the die, and the wear on the actual badge, could account for the difference in appearance.
It appears that the "dot" is actually part of the oak leaf outer edge.
Ralph.

Yes. I agree. Maybe better said, a design "characteristic" (instead of "flaw")

But as we look closer, it is obvious that the obverse of the two badges in post #3 (last photo - left being similar to post 8 and in Maerz book, and the right being the OP's) are different. Wreath, pebbling, swaz, sword cross guard, and the cross border thickness to name a few I spotted. The reverse looks OK but with the exception of the pin. The font on the 62 looks ok as well.

I'm not saying it is a fake, just that it is different than all the other examples posted so far. Possibly a different die. There are just so many makers and variations that I can not proclaim to know much.

**rbminis** · 10-08-2019, 03:34 AM

by MAP

Yes. I agree. Maybe better said, a design "characteristic" (instead of "flaw")

But as we look closer, it is obvious that the obverse of the two badges in post #3 (last photo - left being similar to post 8 and in Maerz book, and the right being the OP's) are different. Wreath, pebbling, swaz, cross thickness to name a few I spotted.

I'm not saying it is a fake, just that it is different than all the other examples posted so far. Possibly a different die. There are just so many makers and variations that I can not proclaim to know much.

I agree.
Of the two in this photo from post #3, the one on the left has the proudest part of the leaf is where it comes in, and raises up as it does so.
The one on the left, the highest part of the leaf is at the outside point, or tip.
If these are from the same maker, they are from a different die.

Ralph.

**MAP** · 10-08-2019, 03:42 AM

by rbminis

I agree.
Of the two in this photo from post #3, the one on the left has the proudest part of the leaf is where it comes in, and raises up as it does so.
The one on the left, the highest part of the leaf is at the outside point, or tip.
If these are from the same maker, they are from a different die.

Ralph.

Yes. The obverse design is completely different. I had to look at if for a bit then all those differences I noted started popping up quickly.

Just a few here ( I didn't circle the dots...too small for my eyes but they are different)

**rbminis** · 10-08-2019, 03:42 AM

Also, compare the dot pattern in the two areas I have circled, they are not a match.
Ralph.

**MAP** · 10-08-2019, 03:43 AM

by rbminis

Also, compare the dot pattern in the two areas I have circled, they are not a match.
Ralph.

Yes. Plus what I circled in post 14

A head scratcher....I can't call it. I don't know if there was a different die ever used. Beyond me.

**rbminis** · 10-08-2019, 03:49 AM

by MAP

Yes. Plus what I circled in post 14

A head scratcher....I can't call it. I don't know if there was a different die ever used. Beyond me.

I don't study them well enough either.

**MAP** · 10-08-2019, 04:10 AM

by rbminis

I don't study them well enough either.

I would like to see another one that started the thread. I just checked over at GCA and found 7...all were tombac but none matching the one that started the discussion.

**rbminis** · 10-08-2019, 04:30 AM

by MAP

I would like to see another one that started the thread. I just checked over at GCA and found 7...all were tombac but none matching the one that started the discussion.

Actually, I just took a look at the data base on GCA and there is a zinc with swords, K&O posted by Philippe with a fluted pin, that does match the one originally posted.
Not sure if you have access.
GCA Forum | Access denied.
Ralph.

**MAP** · 10-08-2019, 04:59 AM

by rbminis

Actually, I just took a look at the data base on GCA and there is a zinc with swords, K&O posted by Philippe with a fluted pin, that does match the one originally posted.
Not sure if you have access.
GCA Forum | Access denied.
Ralph.

Nope. Not a paying member but that is good news!!

The font on the pin matches so I would have to assume it's a good straight pin.

Maerz book is fairly new so surprised it doesn't mention this variant