Good luck Ger in that line of research. No stone left unturned!
Good luck Ger in that line of research. No stone left unturned!
For those interested. Here the structure for the Reichsforstmeister
and its assigned offices with the stand of January 1, 1943.
As you will see the Forstschutzkommando is assigned to the
Reichsforstverwaltung (forestry administration) and there is NO
line to the Luftwaffe:
In the search for answers I did go down a few rabbit holes to see if I could confirm or not some of the other different information that has been posted to see what might or might not be reasonably provable. There being in most cases a much more complex answer, I’ve tried to shorten it as much as possible.
Regarding the Mauser rifles with the reported “Ch.A.W.” markings - that is not what Law’s book has in it. Assisted by the extremely valuable input from the at the time Mauser Factory’s Technical Director there are rifles stamped on the buttstocks with a double circle inside which there is a “Ch.d.A.” - but there is no “W”. It is believed to represent the “Chef des Amtes”, an ambiguous term that was intended to mislead the inspectors of the Inter-Allied Control Commission (part of the post WW I disarmament appartus).
Then I took a brief look at the Luftwaffe organization in that time period. General der Flieger der Wehrmacht Werner Kreipe who was later a Chief of Staff, at one time was the Chef des Ausbildungswesens. With a look at that position in the Luftwaffe showing a wide range of responsibilities - but nothing that I could see that was related to forestry or hunting. Best Regards, Fred
Fred this CHEF des Ausbildungswesens is not a rank, but its a Department, as i pointed out already in post #70by Frogprince
Chef in this cases means Department, and indeed no connection to forestry can be made yet, only the T.Johnson statement in his Volume VII that a Luftwaffe Gefreitet caried that side arm.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genera...egerausbildung
i quote:
General der Fliegerausbildung (Gen.d.Fl.Ausb.) war eine Dienststelle und Amtsbezeichnung innerhalb der deutschen Luftwaffe bis 1945. Sie ging am 27. Juli 1943 durch Umbenennung aus der Dienststelle „Chef des Ausbildungswesens der Luftwaffe“ (Chef AW) hervor und war im Oberkommando der Luftwaffe (OKL) angesiedelt.
Regards,
Ger
Thanks for looking up the Ch.d.W. marking on the mauser rifle, could you please post a picture of that marking as prove that its not Ch.A.W.?
Ger,
I was trying to keep it short, underneath the heading Chef des Ausbildungswesens for the Luftwaffe I saw this: Ausbildungsabteilung
- Vorschriften und Lehrmittelabteilung
- Inspekteur der Heeresflieger
- Inspekteur der Kampf und Sturzkampfflieger - und Aufklärungsflieger des ObdL
- Inspekteur der Jagd, Zerstörer- und Schlachtflieger und des Waffenwesens
- Inspekteur der Flakartillerie
- Inspekteur für Flugsicherheit und Gerät
- Inspekteur des Kraftfahrwesens
- Inspekteur der Luftnachrichtentruppe
- Inspekteur der Marineflieger
- Inspekteur der Flugzeugführerschulen
- Inspekteur des Erziehungs und Bildungswesens der Luftwaffe
- Inspekteur der Luftlande und Fallschirmjägertruppe
- Inspekteur der Flugnavigation
- Inspekteur des zivilen Luftschutzes
- Inspekteur des Sanitätswesens. That looks like a Department to me.
Best Regards, Fred
PS: The "Ch.d.A" marking is as I stated, if I get chance tonight I will try to image it so you can see for yourself.
Last edited by Larry C; 01-09-2018 at 02:35 AM.
Thank you Wim & Fred for the efforts you both take to sort things out, appeciated!
Ger
Fred your killing me..I de-blocked your text.
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!- Larry C
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
A 1939 Chromolit catalogue was advertised for sale on a German auction site. I wonder what interesting evidence is to be found inside?
I had a look into the products produced by the Chromolit company in the 1930's. They are best known for producing table cutlery, and continued doing this post war. I came across a patent application to register their "ch" trademark. But during the 1930's they did seem to have some production in non tableware. Chromolit produced an early SA dagger using the SMALL letter "ch" trade mark and name "Chromolit". Larry himself refers to this is a distant past thread. Interestingly the "Arthur Wingen" part of the company is not marked on Chromolit product.
Which brings us to the Waffen-Loesche knife. The stamping of the initials is not typical of the way Chromolit did it. "Ch.A.W." is not what was usual. The trademark is always "small c, small h"; "ch", not "Ch". A subtle but significant difference. Also, why the addition of "A.W." , when "A.W." or Arthur Wingen does not appear on the Chromolit made SA dagger or on the Chromolit table cutlery?
I am suggesting there may be a third way. Perhaps "Ch.A.W. " ,means NEITHER Chromolit Arthur Wingen NOR Chef des Ausbildung-Wesen (Heer or Luft, or SA).....perhaps there is a third yet unconsidered answer to the marks. Perhaps the marks are regional, or have some other yet thought of meaning? Let the debate continue.
I might add that I've seen a photo of another W-L knife with two different numbers on either side of the crossguard, 692 and 231.
Larry, Not that it's any consolation - after the Army when I decided to go back to school I had a girlfriend who was an English major that I made crazyFred your killing mewith her trying to teach me 'proper' writing skills. But I didn't go to school for that, and what I was good at I continued to do reasonably well. So I will see if I can try and reformat my writing style a little with some changes.
For Ger, below is the image I copied from Richard D Law's (IMO excellent) book that I promised. Not the best photo, but I think that it will give you an idea of what they look like.
Best Regards, Fred
Here is a thought from a manufacturing perspective. Etching as for daggers with just a TM is low cost and very easily changed. Whereas a stamping requires a tool and die maker to make the stamp, have it hardened and then applied using a suitable press. With a unique one of a kind stamp once it gets sufficiently worn it would most likely be discarded. But with a generic plain block style character, even in that era, it might be an 'off the shelf' item that could be more easily acquired at a lower cost in order to make a batch of knives. With the question being does the period product line from Arthur Wingen have a precedent for doing something like that? Best Regards, Fred
A 1939 Chromolit catalogue was advertised for sale on a German auction site. I wonder what interesting evidence is to be found inside?
I had a look into the products produced by the Chromolit company in the 1930's. They are best known for producing table cutlery, and continued doing this post war. I came across a patent application to register their "ch" trademark. But during the 1930's they did seem to have some production in non tableware. Chromolit produced an early SA dagger using the SMALL letter "ch" trade mark and name "Chromolit". Larry himself refers to this is a distant past thread. Interestingly the "Arthur Wingen" part of the company is not marked on Chromolit product.
Which brings us to the Waffen-Loesche knife. The stamping of the initials is not typical of the way Chromolit did it. "Ch.A.W." is not what was usual. The trademark is always "small c, small h"; "ch", not "Ch". A subtle but significant difference. Also, why the addition of "A.W." , when "A.W." or Arthur Wingen does not appear on the Chromolit made SA dagger or on the Chromolit table cutlery?
I am suggesting there may be a third way. Perhaps "Ch.A.W. " ,means NEITHER Chromolit Arthur Wingen NOR Chef des Ausbildung-Wesen (Heer or Luft, or SA).....perhaps there is a third yet unconsidered answer to the marks. Perhaps the marks are regional, or have some other yet thought of meaning? Let the debate continue.
I might add that I've seen a photo of another W-L knife with two different numbers on either side of the crossguard, 692 and 231.
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