Brassard Material Differences

[Rich Moran]

I'd been doing some research on NSDAP brassards & for what is a 1st to me with the Gau rank brassards is seeing 2 entirely different materials used for the rondel and harkenkreuz.

Can anyone please advise why this would be? The only logical conclusion I can come up with is earlier 1939 to perhaps 1942 brassards used as seen in the 2nd image ribbed silk for the white rondel as well as the harkenkreuz. For this materials used with the harkenkreuz the black material was cut into the + symbol, then the arms were folded to produce the harkenkreuz.

Within the first image please note it appears the harkenkreuz is directly stitched to the white rondel which perhaps this is a later produced brassard? I post that as a question instead of fact because I do not know.

Regardless of rank, the silk ribbed material seems to be the most common used material with Gau ranked brassards.

And perhaps the 1942 and later brassards material used were changed to reflect finances being directed towards the war conflict effort?

The date of 1942 is not a date I've discovered anywhere except that 1942 difficulties began to arise within Germanys war economy and savings became paramount to use for direct war supplies so using that date would seem appropriate but later dates could be the fact.

Questions regarding material needs are stated above but also notice the rondel and harkenkreuz centering as well as it's arms being off on the 2nd image. With these high ranking brassards I find it somewhat difficult to understand why this exists and any conjecture to why would help understand better the differences seen.

TIA & Best Regards,
Rich

[NSDAP Sammler]

This was not only the case with Gau level armbands, but also with the other levels. My guess is that it was the manufacturer's fault. There are almost fantastic constellations in the use of material to make these armbands. Some are made entirely of gold-plated metal thread and silk. Some made entirely with Cello thread and in several parts with silk rep. Still others are made with cello and metallic thread and with a linen disc, the swastika and the gold borders are simply embroidered. And then there are those who have a wild mix of all of that. Your first Armband shown is one for the Rank of Stellvertretender Gauleiter, the second one is a Armband for Gauleiter.

Regards

The Sammler

[NSDAP Sammler]

I got three examples of Armbands which were made with different materials. First one for Kreis-Level Amtsleiter, the oak leaves are made with metal thread, silk rep disc and swastika, the borders of those are made of Cello cord. Second one is Gau-Level Hauptamtsleiter, made with Cello thread, a linen disc with simply embroidered borders. Third one is a Armband for Gau-Level Amtsleiter, completely made with metal thread, Disc and swastika are made of silk rep and the borders are made of metal cord.

[Rich Moran]

In my collection I have an Gau Leiter Eines Amtes - 1939-45 brassard that is produced with the ribbed silk for the rondel & harkenkreuz and uses gold metal cord.

Seeing the Stellvertretender Gauleiter brassard in the first post, 1st image came as a surprise to me as I thought that at the Gau level the quality would be consistent in materials used. I came away with the idea that shortages and lack of finances became quite obvious & even in the quality of production the difference between the late 30's to the mid 40's in material and workmanship must of become painfully obvious to the die hards in Nazi Germany.

The Stellvertretender Gauleiter brassard is available for purchase and from what I gather these may be rarer than a Gauleiter brassard, but at the price and with the lacking quality I am on the fence to make a move.

The bigger issue in front of me is dealing with IRS tax issues but knowing how rare these are....the word is FRUSTRATED.

Perhaps this thread can be of help of collectors who may be interested in collecting these as the materials as well as methods of production play an important part in what to look for.

[NSDAP Sammler]

In my collection I have an Gau Leiter Eines Amtes - 1939-45 brassard that is produced with the ribbed silk for the rondel & harkenkreuz and uses gold metal cord.

Seeing the Stellvertretender Gauleiter brassard in the first post, 1st image came as a surprise to me as I thought that at the Gau level the quality would be consistent in materials used. I came away with the idea that shortages and lack of finances became quite obvious & even in the quality of production the difference between the late 30's to the mid 40's in material and workmanship must of become painfully obvious to the die hards in Nazi Germany.

The Stellvertretender Gauleiter brassard is available for purchase and from what I gather these may be rarer than a Gauleiter brassard, but at the price and with the lacking quality I am on the fence to make a move.

The bigger issue in front of me is dealing with IRS tax issues but knowing how rare these are....the word is FRUSTRATED.

Perhaps this thread can be of help of collectors who may be interested in collecting these as the materials as well as methods of production play an important part in what to look for.

Deputy is definitely rarer than Gauleiter! This is because not every one of the 43 Gauleiters had a deputy! About a dozen Gaue had no deputy Gauleiter permanently, so of course there were fewer deputies than Gauleiters. Which in turn suggests that there were also fewer armbands for deputy Gauleiters. As already indicated before, I do not assume that the use of qualitatively different materials is due to the scarcity of materials. I assume that what was available was simply used, since there is evidence that the more simply made armbands were already in use before or at the beginning of the war.

[NSDAP Sammler]

I just took photos of the armbands in my collection. In order of importance: Gau-Level Hauptamtsleiter (two different versions), Gau-Level Amtsleiter, Gau-Level Stellenleiter, Kreis-Level Hauptamtsleiter and Amtsleiter, twice Kreisleiter (two different versions) and Ortsgruppenleiter. As you can see, they are all pretty different in the Materials used. A colorful bouquet of materials, so to speak.

Regards

The Sammler

[Rich Moran]

Here is the Gau Leiter Eines Amtes - 1939-45 brassard. Finally had time to take images. Last image of the obverse taken without flash.

We had our bathrooms explode...effluent all over the place, demo work being done...2022 so far has been a hellacious ride and back fusion surgery coming up 16 May.

Life and it's lemons!

[NSDAP Sammler]

Nice piece! I always call this version the "luxury version". The oak leaves woven with gilded metal thread, the disk and swastika of silk rep and the edging of gilded metal cord.

[Rich Moran]

Thanks NSDAP Sammler. Was thinking about using this to trade up to with $ for the Stellvertretender Gauleiter brassard but got shocked at how low the value is on the Gau Leiter Eines Amtes - 1939-45 brassard.

Then I find out that the Gauleiter tunic I have and posted about a short time back that you commented on was possibly 1 of Robert Wagner's tunic as the sizing is comparable to his frame.

The late Bob Coleman posted he acquired a guesstimated Robert Wagner tunic but that one did not have the BO ribbon on it.

His tunic as mine has no name attributed to it but looks the same size and R. Wagner was awarded the BO for his involvement and the cadet corps he brought to the Burgerbraukeller to participate in the Putch March at the request of Hitler.

Additionally, he went to prison for his involvement.

Robert Wagner worked for about 3 or 4 months as Robert Leys Stellvertretender Gauleiter so now that's set me onto a deep thought pattern of do I go for it or not.

[NSDAP Sammler]

The armband for Gau-Level Amtsleiter is already worth their 700-800 bucks. But nothing more. What I don't quite understand now is the connection between the intended exchange of this armband for the armband for Deputy Gauleiters and your tunic for Gauleiters, which may have belonged to Robert Wagner.