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Diplomatic Gorget ?

Article about: Has anyone seen one like this before ? what are your opinions ?

  1. #21
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    Considering the numerous opinions on this gorget I do believe there's something legitable about it. I do not think this is some kind of fantasy piece. Something isn't "bad" untill proven right? I understand the doubts of the chain looking like it came right out a hardware store but what if they got replaced over time? It's a very curious item which certainly needs more research. Untill then I give this gorget a good chance of being real.

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  3. #22

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    All
    Thank you for your opinions and help ...
    I will put it up for sale for a decent price and will inform customers regarding your info
    Then one can make a decision for themselves whether to buy or not

  4. #23

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    It appears now that there is an IP invasion coming out of Texas as almost every member is listed with a Texas IP.
    I have reported this to the Administration and the Forum Tech.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  5. #24

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    I cannot offer any concrete info on this. All I can say is I have been collecting over 45 years and if this were offered to me privatley or at work, I would turn it down. The quality is just not there.

    Cheers, Ade.
    Had good advice? Saved money? Why not become a Gold Club Member, just hit the green "Join WRF Club" tab at the top of the page and help support the forum!

  6. #25
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    I think Smitty's last post sum's it up.

  7. #26

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    Since one of the primary purposes of the forum is to educate and inform, I like to take steps in a scholarly approach in order to find evidence and proof of such accoutrements that raise questions. Sometimes this research can take minutes and in other instances it could take longer in order to be thorough in the research other than just stating something is authentic and not provide substantial evidence.

    Since some contributors of this posting have not been able to provide us their reasons but only their opinions (which is fine), I would further ask what references and documentation do you use to support your findings? Made by a Blacksmith is not a finding, this is a presumption and opinion...

    There are numerous reference books on the Third Reich to include books on Gorgets. One was posted here that details the Gorget as a fantasy piece, and there are even earlier books written about Gorgets that are available that have no information about this Gorget posted above.

    I took this a step further and since this is supposed to be a Diplomatic Gorget, I went through another book that is specific to the uniforms and accoutrements of the Diplomatic Service... "In the Service of the Reich" Diplomatic and Government Officials and Red Cross by John Angolia.

    In 367 pages there is not one image of a Gorget being worn by any Diplomatic Person, be it staff or Diplomats themselves, and there are plenty of images with foreign dignitaries of other countries, surely there would be one image in the thousands. NOTHING..

    Now since some Gorgets are usually worn by Flag Bearers (Again not all flag bearers) I took this search in another direction and referenced "Flags and Banners of the Third Reich" by A.S. Walker as well as "Flags of the Third Reich" By Brian L. Davis.

    In both books there was nothing that leads me to believe there ever was a Diplomatic Gorget and the piece pictured is a fantasy piece that was fabricated out of a metal visor badge, Yes, the Third Reich made metal visor insignia, both stamped gold colored as well as stamped silver aluminum as indicated on pages 128 and 129 of Angolia's book as well as the images in W. Saris Gorget book which already indicated fantasy pieces.

    The final book I looked in was not related to any organization but the Trophies that Soldier's brought back from the Third Reich at the end of the war.... "World War II German War Booty, A Study in Photographs" by Thomas M. Johnson. Chapter 10 is dedicated to none other than GORGETS. and not one of the 30 Gorgets pictured in the book was a Diplomatic Gorget... Hmmm, I wonder why that is...

    And finally for the benefit of those who may think I have not done enough research I took one more final approach and looked through several Manion's Auction Catalogs. (The younger collectors won't understand the value these books hold as reference material). Plenty of Gorgets were up for auction in the thousands of catalogs that were printed and distributed, again.... NO DIPLOMATIC GORGETS... Again, I wonder why that is... Hmmm,,, Perhaps because they DID NOT EXIST....

    With all this being said.... I challenge those who have replied with no documented proof but their opinions that the pieces are original to provide us with their scholarly research and information. You will be doing a service to this forum and its members by informing us of the wealth of knowledge and information you may possess,,,,, or perhaps you believe in Wolkenkuckucksheim?

    WHO IS UP TO THIS CHALLENGE??

    Best regards

    Smitty

  8. #27

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    Quote by Feedee View Post
    Opinions will always be divided in these collectibles.
    one says good, another says bad, because they just don't know.
    As far as I'm concerned, it's 100% good. for me an original diplomat eagle. gorget itself handmade by local blacksmith not factory made
    so that's a good sign for me.
    of course its then roughly made, that doesn't make it a copy or fantasy piece
    Hmm, that's a novel approach! Kind of "it's so bad it must be good right?

    Let me just say that I have no horse in this race and am just a bemused bystander. I know very little about gorgets at all but what I do know from over 50 years of collecting is pretty much what looks right and what doesn't.

    It appears to me that opinion here so far may be divided but pretty unevenly and those giving an unfavourable opinion tend to be the more experienced members here and I'm afraid your assessment of "100% original" doesn't really fit into that category. Unless of course you know the blacksmith personally (don't you hate sarcasm?).

    Just an opinion of course and we all know about opinions right?

    Regards

    Mark
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

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