nskk gorget opinions

[castle]

well at least its not a fantasy piece...thanks for pics...

[Hummel]

I was asked that I include the text also. The book is written in the German language, which I do not speak yet, so I ask that someone translate it please.

Hummel

[Hummel]

I am posting 3 pages on the NSKK gorget as they appear in "Ringkragen und Brustschilder im Dritten Reich". Following the pictures I will add the captions of text also. They are in German and I hope someone else will translate them as l do not want to mess that part up.

Hummel





1. Mit einer Reihe Fotos werden mehrere Ringkragen für "Truppführer von Dienst", mit oder ohne Bezeichnung "Wache", gezeigt, bei denen nicht gesichert ist, wie authentisch sie sind. Obwohl die Ringkragen in der Anfertigung oberflächlich gut aussehen, läßt die Qualität doch zu wünschen übrig. (Otto Spronk; Philippe Gillain)

2. Linke Seite unten rechts. Wachposten am Tor einer NSKK-Motorsportschule. Bei dieser Gelegenheit wird ein nierenförmiges Schild getragen. Über derartige Ringkragen ist überhaupt nichts bekannt. Es handelt sich hier eindeutig um eine Selbstanfertigung. Dieser wird sicherlich das Symbol des NSKK aufweisen. Es ist nicht ausgeschlossen, daß nach der Erscheinung dieses Buches derartige Fertigunggen auf dem Markt erscheinen werden. Beachte das schöne Symbol an der Seite des Schilderhäuschens. (Ernst Hupkes)




3. Besonders die Anfertigung der Ösen, an denen die Kette befestigt ist, gibt zu denken (siehe Nahaufnahmen mit dem weißen Kreis)! Die Ränder sind zu scharf und nicht bearbeitet. Außerden wird ein Einhängehaken gezgeigt mit der Herstellerbezeichnung TW in einemKreis und die Bezeichnung RZM. Dies steht für den Hersteller Willy Thuy aus Lüdenscheid. Dies Firma verlor schon sehr früh, wahrscheinlich 1934, ihren Berechtigungsnachweis zur Herstellung von parteiamtlichen Gegenstänen. Diese Marke ist auf der Rückseite eines geschwärzten Schildes, daß nicht mit dem Schriftband "Wache" vers ehen warde. Das Schwarz ist ohne jeden Zweifel nachträglich angebracht! (Philippe Gillian; Otto Spronk)

[castle]

thanks for taking the time to review this..i found this for sale but i hate buying fakes and repo,s. actually im still not sure about authenticity..

[CBH]

I would say it an original , it is shown in the best reference book available , it is a rather rare pattern . I would think fakers would stick to the more readily identifiable patterns more well know by collectors .

[HPL2008]

With the express permission of the author Wim Saris, here is a translation of the above German text from his book on gorgets:

"1. A series of photographs illustrating several gorgets for 'Truppführer vom Dienst' [Duty NCOs] with and without the designation 'Wache' [Guard] whose authenticity is not assured. Even though the gorgets' manufacturing style looks good superficially, their quality leaves much to be desired. (Otto Spronk; Philippe Gillain)

2. Left page, bottom right. Guard at the gate of an NSKK-Motorsportschule [NSKK Motor Sports School]. Here, a kidney-shaped gorget is worn. Nothing whatsoever is known about such gorgets. Surely, this one would have borne the NSKK's symbol. It cannot be ruled out that such models will appear on the market following publication of this book. Note the nice symbol on the side wall of the sentry box. (Ernst Hupkes)

3. The manufacturing style of the eyelets to which the chain is attached gives particular cause for concern (see the close-ups with the white circle)! The edges are too sharp and not finished. Also shown is an attachment hook with the maker mark of 'TW' in a circle. This company already lost its license for manufacturing official Party items at a very early time, probably in 1934. This mark appears on the reverse side of a blackened gorget that was not fitted with the 'Wache' scroll. Without any doubt, the black paint had been applied later! (Philippe Gillain, Otto Spronk)"

[castle]

i did translate also..the authors are unsure ...so ill leave it at that. thanks to all who helped..

[Wilhelm Saris]

i did translate also..the authors are unsure ...so ill leave it at that. thanks to all who helped..

wise decision! During the research for the book I have not found any indication about this gorget
in any official periodical or regulation.
Nowhere it was mentioned. If it was ever planned to be introduced, is not even known.
Could be a possibility, but the "eyes" for hanging the chain are in the typical construction as
for all other fake-gorgets as for the NSKK-Verkehrserziehungsdienst.
The TW marking stands for Willy Thuy. They did not have an RZM-permission anymore since
about 1935, I thought.....

[castle]

thanks for the reply mr saris.. this one i thought was to good to be true. plus the seller had known fakes for sale also. hopefully this will help other collectors that run into these..

[BOB COLEMAN]

Wim has certainly given us a good amount of circumstantial evidence that this is a fantasy and not of period. The quality of the front plate construction certainly fooled me. The great thing about this forum is the vast amount of knowledge available to educate not only the beginning but also the seasoned collector. As always, a personal thank you to Mr. Saris for his contributions here.