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View Poll Results: Original or fake?

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  • Original (real)

    1 33.33%
  • Fake (copy)

    2 66.67%
Results 1 to 6 of 6

Original or fake? 64th Motorcycle Battalion 14th Panzer Division medal.

Article about: Hi all, I bought this off eBay on auction for £54 listed as something like “old german coin lot 47 look others” so I assumed the guy has no idea what it is. After some googling I found

  1. #1

    Exclamation Original or fake? 64th Motorcycle Battalion 14th Panzer Division medal.

    Hi all,

    I bought this off eBay on auction for £54 listed as something like “old german coin lot 47 look others” so I assumed the guy has no idea what it is. After some googling I found out what it really was and it seems very few people who would have been interested in buying one of these came across it because of the bad title as only 2 others bid on it, or so I thought that was the reason. I’m now inclined to believe it is a copy. The reasons I think this is because 1: it appears far too shiny and new looking, though there is some browning and patina but this could easily be from poor storage of the copy - on the listing the lighting made it look completely oxidised dark grey! 2: the edge around is one solid ring, on real examples the edge is in two parts, going down from the edge like a staircase. 3: on the rim, there are weird black marks that almost look like casting impurities/errors or something, though I haven’t seen the rim of a real example. Not sure why though but the date 1941 which would be at the bottom of the wreath on the reverse has been almost completely rubbed off, but is still present, I can just about make out 1941 if I angle a torch behind it. I still have time to get a refund if I return it as not described (since if it is a copy, it is not old, and it is also not a coin). I need some better opinions on this though first please.

    Best regards,

    Josh
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Original or fake? 64th Motorcycle Battalion 14th Panzer Division medal.   Original or fake? 64th Motorcycle Battalion 14th Panzer Division medal.  

    Original or fake? 64th Motorcycle Battalion 14th Panzer Division medal.   Original or fake? 64th Motorcycle Battalion 14th Panzer Division medal.  


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  3. #2

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    Hi there.

    I’m not familiar with these, so can’t comment on authenticity, but they do appear to have been a legitimately produced piece. But I see what you mean about the lack of the ‘staircase’ appearance of the inner rim of your example.

    Here is a description from eMedals -

    A Mint Cased 14th Panzer Division Motorcycle Reconnaissance Battalion Medal by Deschler

    A mint medal for a member of the 64th Motorcycle Reconnaissance Unit of the 14th Panzer Division; constructed of silvered zink; the obverse illustrating a leftward facing bust of a Wehrmacht soldier and surrounded by the inscription “Kradschützenbataillon 64 14. Panzerdiv”; the reverse depicting a German Cross (either Gold or Silver grade) in the centre, surrounded by the inscription “Samara-Charkow-Nowotscherkask-Stalingrad”; measuring 50.38 mm in diameter; weighing 43.5 grams. Accompanied by its original case of issue; constructed of heavy pressed paper with a textured blue faux leather (leatherette) exterior; lined interior lid (maker marked “Deschler & Sohn, München; recessed medal bed; functional spring catch with stud release; intact interior fabric hinge cover; functional exterior metal hinge; measuring 107 mm x 105 mm; mint condition.

    Footnote: The 14th Panzer Division was formed in August 1940 from 4. Infanterie-Division. It was transferred to Hungary in March 1941 for the Balkans campaign and returned to Germany after that campaign. It took part in the invasion of the Soviet Union and fought on the southern sector until January 1943, when it was destroyed at Stalingrad. It was reformed in Brittany, France, in April 1943 and was sent to the southern sector of the Eastern front in October 1943, where it remained until July 1944, when it was withdrawn for refitting. It was transferred from the Ukraine to Kurland in August and it surrendered there to the Red Army in April 1945.

    A Mint Cased 14th Panzer Division Motorcycle Reconnaissance Battalion Medal by Deschler

    Photos below from eMedals....
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Original or fake? 64th Motorcycle Battalion 14th Panzer Division medal.   Original or fake? 64th Motorcycle Battalion 14th Panzer Division medal.  

    Original or fake? 64th Motorcycle Battalion 14th Panzer Division medal.  

  4. #3

    Default

    As this is not an Order or Decoration and is a commemorative medal, I have moved it to the correct section of the forum.
    You do not need to start a poll to ask for opinions.
    Ralph.
    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  5. #4

    Default

    Thanks for that! I did see that example before but unfortunately mine has no case though. It could be possible that the marks on the edge of mine were produced by some sort of device that clamps around a medallion with a suspender to allow them to be worn but that is just a guess. As for the 'staircased' edge, that and the detail on the corn in the wreath is the only difference I can see between original examples and my piece, though the latter could be from being worn, as with the date which has been worn almost completely off. Here is a link to a fake on eBay that has the same edge as my one, unlike the staircased edge on the real ones, and it also has no detail on the corn like mine, except mine has the date worn off, and the artists initials on the fake has a small line dividing where the R lays ontop of the K whereas mine does not, though it could possibly be a deep scratch on the medallion that makes it look like that?: WW2 ERA GERMAN 14TH PANZER STALINGRAD COMMEMORATIVE COLLECTORS COIN | eBay Also sorry about that, I wasn't sure entirely what forum to put it in so thank you for changing it to the correct one. As for the poll, I realised that after posting but don't know how to edit the thread.

    Many thanks,

    Josh
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Original or fake? 64th Motorcycle Battalion 14th Panzer Division medal.   Original or fake? 64th Motorcycle Battalion 14th Panzer Division medal.  


  6. #5

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    The RK maker mark is usually attributed to the maker Rudolf Karneth but there is no real proof of this as of yet.
    Ralph.
    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  7. #6

    Default

    Update: I have been told by a number of people on Facebook including by a guy who owns an original one of these that it is a cheap copy identical to the one I have linked for sale on eBay. He said the tell tale sign as I have pointed out in suspicion is the thick edge of both sides, rather than the staircased edge on all the originals. Not sure how he knows but he says none were produced with the thick one piece edge mine has and that for this reason alone it can be identified as a copy. I will be starting a return on it later today. When buying I thought it was too good to be true but knew I could get my money back if it turned out to be a copy, oh well! All the best, Josh.

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