Tatty parts dagger?

[kurbyDK]

Whilst browsing a number of dealers, I came across this dagger. I am still very much a newbie in this area, so I’m going off of the reading I have done on this forum, as well as a few others. It is what looks like a parts dagger - the blade is Heller and very worn, but the cross guard looks incorrect - both being ill fitting, and showing a Gruppe mark (Nm) which was not in list of marks for Heller. The handle looks to be either a replacement (maybe to denazifiy), or an unfinished SS piece due to the lack of insignia at all, as well as bad fit. The scabbard also appears to be NSKK? I have asked the seller for more pictures (which I will post when they come in) as I am intrigued in it for a possible restoration project due to the low asking price.

I look forward to hearing more opinions on this one.

[Larry C]

Hi Kurby welcome to the forum.
You are correct..this dagger is parts and glad you studied.

to further add to your observations...the grip is recent made
the scabbard is junk which those scabbard fittings never existed during the period.
You can compare to with other SA daggers seen in this forum the difference in curvature.

There were 3 types of Gebr Heller blades which the blade on this example is the most common seen one from Marianthal using the smaller letter logo. Another example shows the same style logo but with larger letters also from Marianthal
Lastly the commonly seen anchor logo example.

You are correct these crossguards do not belong to this producer ..not only because of the incorrect SA gruppe mark but also the guard style type.
I do not know what restoration can be used on correcting the fittings more so than the condition.
Finding the correct fittings may cost you more and will take a while to find which may add up to what an SA dagger costs currently.

Below are just a few pics to compare to from a past Heller dagger I owned.
Regards Larry

if you can get more pics ..that would be great.

[oberhaig]

It's for sale for £300!! That should tell you everything you need to know- If it sounds too good to be true - then it usually is! Never heard of the dealer either

The Third Reich — Total-Recoil

[kurbyDK]

Thank you very much for the responses, I am glad that I passed this one by.
Instead of starting a new threat, I found this one for sale locally to me - but the dark grip makes me a little unsure.

[Larry C]

What do you think of the grip and runes button and its placement?

The dark grip is a different topic and appears to be a recent paint over of an SA grip.

Regards Larry

[kurbyDK]

Larry, looking closer at the pictures of the grip i almost feel like the eagle and the runes are placed more ontop of the grip, rather than properly inlaid into it. As if it is sitting a little too proud.

[Larry C]

you are going in the right direction

Look at the amount of stress or gouge marks that encircle both the grip eagle and runes button.
I know I would not want a dagger grip like that in my collection.

These 2 items were replaced which makes the dagger messed with.

[kurbyDK]

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction Larry, you are credit to the community in helping to guide new collectors in the right direction.

I have since been looking further and in closer detail into way that the parts fit together - being in lockdown has given me a lot of time on my hands!

It has led me to a blade that is marked RZM M7/55 (Robert Herder), but i have been unable to find other pictures of the same markings to be able to compare the markings. I have only been able this stamp on images of HJ knives.

[Larry C]

That RZM marking is Carl Eickhorn although Herder had an RZM license but did not benefit from it.

Eickhorn produced until 1942
In close comparison you will see that the 66 looks like the 55

below is a 1938 dated RZM code


You are correct about the HJ Herder RZM marking.

[Adravor]

The Dealer also sells this Helmet as an Original Shell... i would definitly stay clear from all of his items...