Bundeswehr veterans and the 57' awards.

[oradour]

Gentlemen, i dont usually post in this section of the forum, as a (usually) dedicated Imperial collector i am usually in that section. But i have an Iron Cross collection spanning the years between 1870 to 1957, some 30 ish crosses in all, the Imperial EK is well documented in the Imperial section and its 39' version in this part of the forum, however as a EK collector i have a modest collection of the 57' award (which IMO should be part of any serious EK collection), which under Federal law (West German) was permitted to be re struck and worn by veterans both in civilian life (reunions etc) and in the newly formed Bundeswehr (which many veterans rejoined). Most former medals,combat badges, arm shields and cufftitles were re made (no political badges/awards were sanctioned/allowed)albeit without the swastika symbol which under Federal law was a banned symbol.
So gentlemen if you have any of these awards/medals or photos/paperwork please post here for us all to see and discuss, thanks for your time.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Here is my 1957 pattern combined Pilot/Observers award. It is my only example of a 1957 pattern award. I paid £10 many years ago as I just liked the quality of it. It is an early example of this type of award, made of Tombak. In later examples the quality declined.

Note the style of pin used. This semi broad pin can be found on many 1957 pattern awards. However, if the same pin is found on what purports to be a Third Reich award, beware.

Cheers, Ade.

[Paul D]

57 Pattern DKIG , not one of the better ones i'm afraid. Two days ago i saw a very early example the quality of it was very very good , i'll try and get some photos and post them !!

[oradour]

Here are 3 57' EK I's, with these 57' awards, quality in the begining was as good as wartime crosses, but as time went on over the 50 year time span, remember these crosses are still made today, (albeit for the collector market), in the begining, stocks of wartime parts, hinges, pins, catches, and even boxes were used until stocks dried up and then parts were manufactured. The finish declined, as you can see on the photos, early example to late production is shown (left to right), first one probably early 60's (notice the nice frosting), next late 60's or early 70's, lastly modern production 80's - present. None of these crosses are marked, i believe them to be all Steinhauer & Luck made, although the middle one sports a Souval type pin, and notice the round mark on 9'o'clock arm, for 2nd class, indicator where the suspension ring was to be soldered ! All three are 3 part construction, the first two have magnetic cores, the modern production cross has a non-magnetic core. Although in the late 50's crosses using left over parts could show an LDO or Prasidalkanzlei numbers, i.e. 3 or L/11 for Deumer etc, but these were not used on subsequent made parts, as this regulating system had died along with the Third Reich. Known makers of 57' awards/medals are Steinhauer & Luck, Otto Schickle, Deumer, C.E.Junker, Deschler, Klein & Quenzer and i think Assman, (if anyone can add to this list, feel free).

[prosty zolnierz]

just thought I would contribute a couple of pennysworth to this topic ( I am attempting to draw level with Adrian's posting degree )
bit-box pickup from classic car show a few years ago. the maker is F W Assman und Sohn. 50p and the bloody pins are broke ! he saw me coming, hee-haw .

[oradour]

prosty zolnierz, excellent RARE para clasp, i believe produced by Assmann & Sohne (i can see the top of the 'A' protruding over the remaining pin) prior to 1957 and worn by officers 56-58 period until the 57' designated award was produced, worn well into the 60's. It is based upon the sanctioned but never produced or issued Third Reich designed fallschirmjager clasp.

[oradour]

My humble 57' collection......im sure in years to come people will want to see, and think these items will be worth collecting.......an early (as shown) second class 57', is at the moment fetching more than its 39' counterpart !

[Paul D]

Early good quality DKiG

[DUJAILAH]

Here are 3 57' EK I's, with these 57' awards, quality in the begining was as good as wartime crosses, but as time went on over the 50 year time span, remember these crosses are still made today, (albeit for the collector market), in the begining, stocks of wartime parts, hinges, pins, catches, and even boxes were used until stocks dried up and then parts were manufactured. The finish declined, as you can see on the photos, early example to late production is shown (left to right), first one probably early 60's (notice the nice frosting), next late 60's or early 70's, lastly modern production 80's - present. None of these crosses are marked, i believe them to be all Steinhauer & Luck made, although the middle one sports a Souval type pin, and notice the round mark on 9'o'clock arm, for 2nd class, indicator where the suspension ring was to be soldered ! All three are 3 part construction, the first two have magnetic cores, the modern production cross has a non-magnetic core. Although in the late 50's crosses using left over parts could show an LDO or Prasidalkanzlei numbers, i.e. 3 or L/11 for Deumer etc, but these were not used on subsequent made parts, as this regulating system had died along with the Third Reich. Known makers of 57' awards/medals are Steinhauer & Luck, Otto Schickle, Deumer, C.E.Junker, Deschler, Klein & Quenzer and i think Assman, (if anyone can add to this list, feel free).

Hi Oradour, Nice thread. I'd missed it. What do the Klein & Quenzer '57 EK1 & EK2's look like? Are they marked?

Cheers,

Richard.

[oradour]

Richard, i unfortunatly sold a stormer of a 57' Knights Cross in the early 90's, as i didnt feel that 57's were legitimate EK's...i let i go for around £80, a lot of money back then, to a fellow collector...worth around $1000 today, what a mistaka to maka !!!...it was typical K&Q, quality piece, they were obviously using the wartime dies, as did most 57' RK makers in 1957-58, even the bandring was marked '800' & '65'. I have not examined any 57' EK I or II by K&Q, but i believe them to be as good as wartime items, the early 57's are rare, rarer than their 39' counterparts. I believe that by the early to mid 60's most firms had stopped production of the 57 awards, leaving St u L to continue to this day. K&Q closed down sometime around 1985. I love the fusion of Third Reich size and Imperial design on the 57' EK's