Flakkampfabzeichen der Luftwaffe ?

[pierrick]

I need help here on this flak badge. feel very shiny for 70++ years.

[BlackCat1982]

Wait for the Flak Abzeichen experts to flock by but given the Adler looks like a pigeon I'd say this one is post 1945.

[Watchdog]

On the face of it this looks like the "Unknown maker" ( aka Ball Hinge or Lizard Head) Zinc 2nd die.
It does look bright but I wouldn't immediately say that is a red flag as the finish on these was quite robust and photographic lighting can have a huge brightening effect.

The surface of the obverse does seem a little rough for a badge known for having good detail even in zinc but that again may be an effect of the lighting. If it is nice and smooth that is good. If it is rough that is bad.

One thing that does look odd to me is that if you compare the area under the gun breech in the full obverse and that in the close up of the same area it looks like different badges?

Have you seen the badge in hand (is it yours)? and are able to clarify this point.

Good natural light images will help but at the moment I am not certain though I am inclined 60/40% towards it being an original. However, if you are thinking of acquiring it you need much better odds than that I think.

Regards

Mark

[pierrick]

it s not mine but I have it in hand . I will try to make natural light picture. for the smooth... I think its smooth but I never touch a rough one so it s hard to tell. i will maybe buy it, its cheap but i want to be sure first.

[Watchdog]

it s not mine but I have it in hand . I will try to make natural light picture. for the smooth... I think its smooth but I never touch a rough one so it s hard to tell. i will maybe buy it, its cheap but i want to be sure first.

If it is cheap you should take that into account as a possible warning too. Don't choose it on price alone. It is only a bargain if it is genuine.

As for the detail/smoothness compare it to other zinc badges and it should look good and well detailed by comparison.

Regards

Mark

[pierrick]

thank you

[rbminis]

I have moved your thread to the correct section of the forum and changed the title to use the correct German terminology as per this thread.
The Use of German Terminology.
Here is my ball hinge Flak for you to compare.
Ralph.

[Watchdog]

I have moved your thread to the correct section of the forum and changed the title to use the correct German terminology as per this thread.
The Use of German Terminology.
Here is my ball hinge Flak for you to compare.
Ralph.

Nice badge Ralph A first die example if I am not mistaken. Is the dimple on the bottom right leaf visible?

@ pierrick; With this particular badge (Unknown maker) it is useful to know that the 1st die was used to make the tombak and neusilber badges before the zinc was introduced and so the flaws from that die were carried into the zinc production. Of particular note is the line apparently joining the rivets on the trail of the gun carriage. This was feint on the early NS and tombak pieces but became more pronounced until it was very obvious on the late zinc pieces. Also common to all first die pieces is a small dimple on the bottom right leaf just above the vein. Conversely this can be very hard to see on a worn zinc badge. The 1st die badges use a flatwire catch rather than the round wire used later.
The 2nd die had the flaws corrected and where the upper left of the wreath meets the eagle tail the "fit" is greatly improved with the wreath being recessed to fit the applied eagle in a set position every time. 2nd die badges were only made in zinc.

Here are a couple of pics of my neusilber piece (I don't have a zinc one), one shows the pimple close up and in the other you can see the start of the rivet line flaw.

I hope this helps.

Regards

Mark

[rbminis]

Nice badge Ralph A first die example if I am not mistaken. Is the dimple on the bottom right leaf visible?

Thanks Mark!
I would say, yes.
Not real visible though.
Ralph.