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Flotten-Kriegsabzeichen - Rudolf Souval wartime or postwar?

Article about: Hi again, still going through the recent badges. This one is a high seas fleet badge made by Souval, and I wonder if there are any clues to tell if this is wartime or post war? I have seen s

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    Default Flotten-Kriegsabzeichen - Rudolf Souval wartime or postwar?

    Hi again, still going through the recent badges.

    This one is a high seas fleet badge made by Souval, and I wonder if there are any clues to tell if this is wartime or post war?

    I have seen similar ones regarding the pin/catch setup and the same font being sold as wartime but I would please like to hear your opinions.

    Thanks again for looking,
    Nico

    Flotten-Kriegsabzeichen - Rudolf Souval wartime or postwar?Flotten-Kriegsabzeichen - Rudolf Souval wartime or postwar?Flotten-Kriegsabzeichen - Rudolf Souval wartime or postwar?Flotten-Kriegsabzeichen - Rudolf Souval wartime or postwar?Flotten-Kriegsabzeichen - Rudolf Souval wartime or postwar?Flotten-Kriegsabzeichen - Rudolf Souval wartime or postwar?Flotten-Kriegsabzeichen - Rudolf Souval wartime or postwar?Flotten-Kriegsabzeichen - Rudolf Souval wartime or postwar?

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  3. #2
    MAP
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    I don't know what the post war examples look like or if they are different, but this looks a war time example to me.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  4. #3

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    An original Souval badge ,certainly wartime compatible. The problem is that Souval produced this style post war! This is why I bought a Schwerin HSF .regards ,Paul

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    Quote by paulscoot View Post
    An original Souval badge ,certainly wartime compatible. The problem is that Souval produced this style post war! This is why I bought a Schwerin HSF .regards ,Paul
    My position exactly and I only wanted one example so Schwerin it was.

    However, I am not sure about this one.

    I stand to be corrected but I always thought that an instant recognition feature of Souval Flottenkriegsabzeichen badges is that they are unique in that the gun barrels of the lateral turrets do not touch the wreath wheareas the badges of all the other makers do touch the wreath. Clearly these are in contact with the wreath.

    Anyone else have thoughts on that?

    Also, there is something about the eagles head that puzzles me. Not really sure but it just looks odd.

    I hope I am to be corrected here.

    Regards

    Mark
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  6. #5
    MAP
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    You might be correct Mark. I was a bit quick in my assessment. My excuse is that it was late and I was looking at it from my cell phone.

    Martin or Norm will certainly know. Norm has 3 classifications of these.

    Weber notes that the example in his book is convex. Assuming he means the reverse. Not sure though

    I want to do a bit more research as I'm not 100% sure that all variants had disconnected gun turrets



    Edit: This is a photo (Credit Norm F from WAF) and link of what is deemed to be an original war time Souval.

    Hopefully Norm and Martin will see this. I just have my reference materials and have never held a Souval in hand.

    Souval HSF -

    Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums


    Flotten-Kriegsabzeichen - Rudolf Souval wartime or postwar?
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  7. #6

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    Quote by MAP View Post
    You might be correct Mark.
    I want to do a bit more research as I'm not 100% sure that all variants had disconnected gun turrets
    Me neither, as I say I stand to be corrected. It's just something that raises a flag in my mind. Maybe it is a variation between dies and should be seen as a guide rather than a confirming indicator. Also, I am vary wary of any RS badge and personally prefer to stay away from them simply because of their post-war behaviour!

    I think if the word "convex" is used to describe a badge it just has to be a reference to the obverse ie the reverse is concave because if it were the other way round any badge at all would just look wrong, like a sunken souffle

    I too am anticipating input from Martin and or Norm to give us chapter and verse on these
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

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    Thank so much Watchdog and Map for you insights. Its very interesting points that you bring up and I hope we will have a clear answer in the end.

  9. #8
    MAP
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    Doh....convex, concave...yup

    Based on the photo from Norm, I'm leaning towards it being ok...but if this also a pattern used post war, I don't know.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  10. #9

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    D'Oh! looks like time to scratch the lateral gun barell theory unless it means that if they don't touch the wreath it can only be RS but if they do...... well it doesn't help with originallity if some RS badges are joined at the wreath

    Regards

    Mark
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  11. #10

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    It's as clear as mud gents, Some Souval badges have barrels that touch the wreath, some don't.

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