German Cross & Knights Cross...Authentic or Repro???

[dzyner]

Hi guys,

Hoping someone can help me identify from these photos whether or not these two are the real deal. Photos are so-so, but for the most part I think the detail is there. If you need additional photos please let me know and I'll be happy to take them (please tell me specifically what you need to see).

As always, thanks for helping a novice understand more about spotting fakes

Dzyner

[gooseandspoons]

the markings look good

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Dzyner, both of these are bad.

The RK is not a Godet made example which it purports to be.

The Deutsche Kreuz in Gold has an oversized red border and poor wreath. The rivet set up (should only have 4) and pin is totally wrong for this maker, Zimmermann.

Cheers, Ade.

[dzyner]

Thanks Ade! My brother just turned me onto wehrmacht-awards, which has a VERY good reference section and I see the same things you mentioned regarding the Deutsche Kreuz.

Can you please elaborate on what you see with the RK so I can understand exactly what you're seeing?

Thanks again Ade, always a huge help!

[Danny70]

Hello Dzyner,

The RK is a well known fake (known as the Latvian fake). The entire shape is wrong for an RK, the swastika is too large, date style inconsistent with known originals and the beading looks to be laser cut. Besides, the exact same cross can also be found with different markings.

Regards - Danny

[Bill Garvy]

Another example of a "Latvian" reproduction, this one with "Zimmermann" markings. . .

[gooseandspoons]

is there a heraldry of insignia and medals for the third reich? I know the US when they propose a medal, patch, badge or what have you there is a blueprint of it submitted to whomever is making the medal stating all measurements and colors of the pin or badge.

[Bosungus]

Another example of a "Latvian" reproduction, this one with "Zimmermann" markings. . .

I wonder if you can point the significant differences between a "a "Latvian" Zimmerman and an authentic one.
thanks bosungus

[Danny70]

I wonder if you can point the significant differences between a "a "Latvian" Zimmerman and an authentic one.
thanks bosungus

See post #5.

[Bosungus]

Many of you I'm sure are KC experts and probably have handled quite a few. Myself, as just learning about these would find it helpful if you could point out the differences between say a real "Zimmerman" as opposed to a "Latvian fake" for instance. If the shape is wrong, what shape is a "Zimmerman", swastika too large, what size should it be, date style, what particular date style did "Zimmerman" use.
I find the forum very informative and a great
learning experience and sometimes explanations would be very helpful especially when we are trying to determine the authentic from the "fake" . Thanks, bosungus