Kriegsabzeichen fur die Marine-Artillerie Otto Placzek Junker Berlin

[MAP]

Straight on shot of eegle would be good to compare. First photos looked more like the angle it was taken that was causing the distorted head. But not sure now in looking at the reverse view

Still, sorry to say but I still think it's been repainted. You can see just above the bottom of the wreath and below the gun turret where there is no guilding / paint

[Watchdog]

Lots of wear on the reverse but gilding on the front looks new.....and shouldn't the gun be silvered/blacken? Or am I totally wrong and that isn't paint. If you look at the 1st photo, upper left inside, a bit blurry but it looks like newer paint to me.
But the award looks like an original Juncker variation 1.

I agree that this looks like a period early tombak badge and it does have the characteristic curved flaw line at the bottom of the reverse below the maker mark. However, I do think it has been re-finished with gold paint as opposed to being gilt and yes, the central motif should be a silvered finish toned to almost black over the passage of 70 odd years. Also the reverse seems to have had a black finish applied again probably paint. I think I am correct in saying that the tombak badges by Juncker should have a completely gold coloured reverse and it is the Juncker zinc badges that have an apparently black reverse?. Whichever way you look at it it seems to me that this badge albeit original in itself has been badly re-finished. Or is it the pictures/my old mans eyes!

Regards

Mark

[MAP]

Yes Mark. We are seeing the same thing. So it is both of our old eyes.

[HoundsTooth]

I agree on the re-paint.

Another for comparison - Kriegsabzeichen fur die Marine-Artillerie, real or fake
Eagle's head looks a bit weird here too.

And Mark - the curved flaw line can be faked too, and quite well! Remember this one:
Kriegsabzeichen fur die Marine-Artillerie: original or fake?

Nick

[martinw]

Maybe my old eyes as well,but I think we are looking at an original badge here that is void of most of it's obverse finish.

I think i'm looking at the tombak basemetal and the finish has been polished off over time ??


Some traces of the original finish can be seen at the bottom of the badge below the gun housing,i think.


Cheers,Martin.

[Watchdog]

And Mark - the curved flaw line can be faked too, and quite well! Remember this one:
Kriegsabzeichen fur die Marine-Artillerie: original or fake?

Nick

I agree Nick although the fake I believe is a zinc microcasting. Producing the same effect in tombak is a totally different kettle of fish (I suppose that is a "bad smell" analogy!) which thankfully seems beyond being economical for fakers, yet.

It is a point well raised though as an inexperienced or over eager eye or even a well versed one on a bad day may well be taken in

Regards

Mark

[MAP]

Maybe my old eyes as well,but I think we are looking at an original badge here that is void of most of it's obverse finish.

I think i'm looking at the tombak basemetal and the finish has been polished off over time ??


Some traces of the original finish can be seen at the bottom of the badge below the gun housing,i think.


Cheers,Martin.

And I see it as the exact opposite....lol but I trust your eyes better than mine. I pointed out that anomoly under the gun housing as well. To my eyes I would expect to see some finish in the nooks and crannies beyond the gun turret area and I would expect to see much more wear to the award itself.

I guess the OP who has it in hand will be in the best position to determine if it is worn or paint

I do hope I am wrong and that all is good!!! I might have caused a little concern but I think its been a valuable discussion

[Watchdog]

Some traces of the original finish can be seen at the bottom of the badge below the gun housing,i think.
Cheers,Martin.

Hi Martin,

great to have your input as one who really does know the KM badges.

I can see what you mean and I was undecided whether this was original finish or a build up of dirt/tarnish on what is clearly tombak.
It is of course hard to tell on a PC monitor but what pushed me towards re-paint is the bright "flares" of gold colour on the sheltered sides of high points especially on the breech end of the gun. Maybe you can tell what might be a crucial factor because I am not sure; was the gold finish applied to the whole badge (covering the gun) and the silvering applied to the relevant areas over the gold or were they each applied directly to the metal of the badge? I suppose if that were so there may be a discerible line where the two met.
Either way what of the black on the reverse? That is surely not patina but something applied and which has subsequently flaked?

Regards

Mark

[excalibr]

Thank you for all the input!! I am uploading a few more pics that I think will answer some questions. It was dark when I posted this last night and I could not get outside pics in natural light. Here are some in natural light. Hope these help!

[Watchdog]

What a difference daylight makes! I find I must now completely agree with Martin. Of course he is an accomplished photographer and could probably recognise the effects of light to a greater degree!
I still can't explain the dark colour on the reverse which does appear to me to be applied but I am no longer concerned by it.
Sensible discussion is what we do here and is abosolutely crucial in this hobby!

Regards

Mark