U-boot Kriegsabzeichen, Help needed.

[Flak bunker]

Hello Gents,my expertise is really in wartime binoculars and not badges,so I need a little help here,i recently bought a really nice kriegsmarine binocular with its case,to my amazement when I opened the case hidden in a filter pocket was this little beauty,as its not my field I need some advice basically is it real?if not its no odds as it will just go into the bin,if so I will keep it to go along with my german kriegsmarine bino display

[big ned]

Looks like a good type 1 zinc U Boat badge by Orth to me, but there are some very good fakes about. Hang in for those better placed to comment, but from my money I think it stands a great chance.

Regards, Ned.

[avenger]

What every collector hopes for. The "hidden" bonus, the buy one get one free, and such a nice piece if original.

[Flak bunker]

Many thanks gents lets hope so,as I say I have very little knowledge of awards and you hear so much about the fact that fakes have got much better over the years,be really nice if it is as I have a few u boat binos,and it would like nice next to them

[big ned]

I'm looking closely at the maker mark, and now I have serious doubts i'm afraid. The tail on the top right of the 'O' looks like what i've seen on some fake 'f,O,' Panzerkampfabzeichen's and that's making me have second thoughts. As I said, there's some pretty good fakes of this badge, let's wait out and see what Martin, Leon et al think.

[harryamb2]

for me its a good Orth badge nice details crisp.

[martinw]

I'm liking what i see so far.

I understand Ned's concerns in regards to the maker mark,it's hard to tell if it has the "tell tail' horizontal mark on the "O" .If you could post a close up of the maker mark it would be a great help,i think.

Cheers,Martin.

[Flak bunker]

Many thanks lads for all your time and effort,its not looking good is it?more negatives than positives,still could have been worse I could have bought it rather than found it,here are more detailed photos of the reverse and front you asked for martin

[FALLSCHIRMJAGER]

Hi, I think Ned may just be onto something regarding the "tail" , I really love the detail to the obverse on this one but there seem to be a few light casting flaws to the reverse( one running horizontal from the catch, another just under the hook and a third in the Adlers head). I do however like the catch and pin set-up. For me it is holding to many questions and I personally would pass on it if it were offered. Leon.

[big ned]

Thanks for the better pic's.

I'm calling this one a fake i'm afraid. My reasoning is in the pic's below of the obverse and reverse details on your badge, known fakes, and a couple of genuine badges. As I already pointed out as a concern is the MM of f,O,. The 'tail' I see on yours is only found on fakes from what i've researched, see below.



Above your badge with the 'tail'.



Above a genuine badge without it (Note it's de nazified).

The main problem with the obverse is the crossed ribbon details at the bottom of the wreath. On yours the ribbon's 'corrugations' are deeply incised and are angled from the horizontal plane.



Compare the ribbon of your badge above with this known fake. They are the same.



Now compare those to this genuine badge below. The 'corrugations' are a lot less defined, and are closer to being horizontal.



And this other genuine piece.



There are other small anomalies as well, like the eagles head and other details, but the ones above are the main concerns as I see them, being at odds with each other, and the known fakes being closer in appearance to your badge than the genuine badges.

At least it hasn't cost you anything, and it'll still look good in your display!

Regards, Ned.