XX Years of the Workers' and Peasants' Red Army

[PapaStalin1943]

Hi all- There is this 20th Anniversary medal type 1 that an Auction House is selling on their current Auction. I know that these are heavily faked, especially the Type 1, but luckily there are photo scans so we can see the details crisply. To me, this seems like it may potentially be a good one, but I find it very strange that the screw plate is not the serial numbered "Mondvor" type, but the same "Monetny Dvor" screw post that is used on Type 1 Bravery and Merit medals. The enamel to me looks like the original examples I've seen posted here on the forum and in the Comprehensive Guide, and the detail on the reverse also looks the same as the original examples that I compared this to and the soldier portrait isn't really lacking a lot detail like the majority of these fakes. I know that there aren't just fakes on eBay, but on actual 'professional' auction sites as well.

I think that if anything this may be a Type 2 that was put on a Type 1 Bravery suspension. Or maybe the screw post was replaced... What do you guys think?

Best Regards,
Nikita.

[32Artillery]

Hard to say with this one. The enamel is very cloudy, and it suggests to me it may be ground dug.
The details to the gun barrel, the soldiers left hand, and the cap star and bill are very worn which would be acceptable on an original.
What I'm having trouble with is the "XX" at the bottom of the medal. On all originals I've seen, the XX goes over the lower rim, but with the one you show they seem to stop at the edge of the rim? It may be just the picture, but I'm not sure.
Let's see what the others have to say.

Out of curiosity, what do you see as the difference between a type 1 and a type 2 other than different hangers?

[Marcel Banziger]

Both XX seem to stop at the edge indeed as 32Artillery mentions. Enamel looks odd and the eyelet is a bit different. That is what I see on my phone. Will have another look tonight on my laptop.

Maybe post the link to the auction or post their description here. Is this auctionhouse familiar with Soviet awards?

[drowl]

Hi,
You are right，the srewnut is not original. For the suspension plate, the original one should have a 4 cut-off prongs. But it cannot be seen in your picture so please check it. I agree with people’s opinions above about the XX should lower than the inner rim a little bit. In addition, I have never seen the wear and tear on the medal surface is so severe like this. It is like some kind of artificial antique finish.

Dr.Owl

[Marcel Banziger]

Checked the pics again on my laptop. As mentioned before, by several members both XX are not correct, I furthermore don't like the eyelet, the enamel, the wear which looks artificially made, the date 1938 is off plus I think the suspension is (apart from the nut being not correct as mentioned before) not a real one (very roughly made). Just my humble opinion. Looking forward to see more opinions.

[PapaStalin1943]

Maybe post the link to the auction or post their description here. Is this auction house familiar with Soviet awards?

Yes, they seem to be familiar with Soviet awards.
Here is the description of the auction:

"The Jubilee Medal "XX Years of the Workers' and Peasants' Red Army" was a state military commemorative medal of the Soviet Union established on January 24, 1938, by decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR to denote the twentieth anniversary of the creation of the Soviet Armed Forces.

Dimensions: D: 1 1/4 in., (32 mm.)"

[Marcel Banziger]

The usual info taken from wikipedia it seems hahaha
Which auctian house is it? That could explain things. I of course understand when you don't wanna name them to avoid others bidding as well (Though I am pretty sure collectors who want a good one without any doubts go to the well known dealers, pay a bit more and get a decent example of this medal).

[PapaStalin1943]

It is from an auction house on LiveAuctioneers. I think I will post the name of the auction house later on today, as I see a listing that I am really interested in and am going to do more research and make sure it is original. If it is original then I think I will hold off on the name for a few days so no other collectors can bid on it (I say this because if these are real, it is an item I have been looking to get for a bit now, I mean no disrespect of course ). They seem to specialize in Imperial Russian swords, daggers, and medals, but they do have a decent amount of soviet era medals and orders. I do know that they have a fake Odessa medal and an altered set of medals (although we don't know if they altered it or if they bought it like that, I assume they did the latter).

I completely agree with you guys regarding the "XX," and I also just realized that the "8" in the "1938" seems skinnier. I think I am going to pass on this for sure, as I now have my eyes on a lot of 3 Soviet Naval uniforms, and I believe one of them is wartime (of course I will be doing some research beforehand to see if it is indeed wartime).

[Thedutchjelle]

I really don't like the aging.. I've never seen silver (and if it's the real deal, it should be silver) corrode like that. Furthermore the numbers on the medal seem thicker than they are on the example I could find on Mat's website, though that could be a photograph thingey. I also agree with the other posters on the XX not crossing the rim. I would pass on this one.
Comparison : Soviet Medal for the 20th Anniversary of the RKKA, 1938

[kmoney10]

I agree with everyone above. I've kept an eye on liveauctioneers and it seems that majority of auction houses there that have soviet items are fake and the pictures they provide are terrible. I once asked for better pictures, they never responded.