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A Victoria Cross for auction soon

Article about: Allways amazing to see such items surface... Very early Victoria Cross awarded for Crimean War gallantry features in London auction

  1. #1

    Default A Victoria Cross for auction soon

    Always looking for Belgian Congo stuff!
    http://out-of-congo.eklablog.com/

    cheers
    |<ris

  2. #2

    Default

    Not sure if this is legal!!!
    Regards
    René

  3. #3

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    Can't comment that.
    But I still see ivory been sold in auction houses, without cites documents, and even worse; totaly prohibited items...
    So I am interested to see how this might end.
    Always looking for Belgian Congo stuff!
    http://out-of-congo.eklablog.com/

    cheers
    |<ris

  4. #4

    Default

    There is no laws against the public sales of Victoria Crosses, Australian Victoria Crosses. There laws for the sales of Medal of Honours.
    Morris

  5. #5

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    Quote by KMMorris View Post
    There is no laws against the public sales of Victoria Crosses, Australian Victoria Crosses. There laws for the sales of Medal of Honours.
    Morris
    Ok Sharp man.

    The last Australian Victoria Cross medal from WWI was sold to pay phone bill
    Regards
    René

  6. #6

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    your point being.... sharp man...

    Many of them get sold...

    some more examples encase you are interested

    Flying Officer Lloyd Trigg, Royal New Zealand Air Force

    £120,000 (£138,000 including premium)

    Spink, 6th May 1998



    Commander Daniel Marcus William Beak, Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve

    £155,000 (£178,250 including premium)

    Spink, 5th November 2003



    Sergeant Norman Cyril Jackson, Royal Air Force

    £200,000 (£230,000 including premium)

    Spink, 30th April 2004


    Captain Alfred John Shout, 1st Infantry Battalion, Australian Imperial Forces

    A$1,000,000 (approx. £405,000) (A$1,214,500 including premium- approx. £490,000)

    Bonhams and Goodman, Sydney, 24th July 2006

  7. #7

    Default

    Yes mate, unlike some countries, British awards remain the property of the estate of the recipient after his death and therefore they are entitled to dispose of them as they wish. It is an offence for a recipient to sell his medals whilst still serving. However, If a soldier is disgraced at Court Martial and receives a custodial sentence his medals can be ordered forefeit but certainly within my knowledge that only tends to happen when it is physically possible (ie at the actual trial when he would be wearing them) to remove them from his person. Unless forfeiture is ordered, which they may be (not automatically, it would be an order of the Court) in the case of dismissal, the medals are confiscated when he goes into custody but if he is to "soldier on" they are returned on completion of the custodial sentence. The principle in these circumstances is basically that an individual cannot "un-earn" a medal or decoration and what he did to earn a medal cannot be undone. This is a simplyfied version of the situation and the rules can be a bit complicated.
    However, the short answer is; British orders and medals do not revert to the state but remain with the estate upon decease. There maybe slightly different regulations in Australia these days but this medal is a British award to a British sailor (was he naturalised?) and the sale is in London.

    I expect Lord Aschcroft might be all over this one as he already owns the other two VC from the same action and his collection includes more than 180 VC. It is on display at the Imperial War Museum.

    It will be very interesting to see where this one goes. Hopefully an award as significant as this will not disappear into an underground vault and hidden from public view!!

    Regards

    Mark
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  8. #8

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    Quote by Watchdog View Post
    Yes mate, unlike some countries, British awards remain the property of the estate of the recipient after his death and therefore they are entitled to dispose of them as they wish. It is an offence for a recipient to sell his medals whilst still serving. However, If a soldier is disgraced at Court Martial and receives a custodial sentence his medals can be ordered forefeit but certainly within my knowledge that only tends to happen when it is physically possible (ie at the actual trial when he would be wearing them) to remove them from his person. Unless forfeiture is ordered, which they may be (not automatically, it would be an order of the Court) in the case of dismissal, the medals are confiscated when he goes into custody but if he is to "soldier on" they are returned on completion of the custodial sentence. The principle in these circumstances is basically that an individual cannot "un-earn" a medal or decoration and what he did to earn a medal cannot be undone. This is a simplyfied version of the situation and the rules can be a bit complicated.
    However, the short answer is; British orders and medals do not revert to the state but remain with the estate upon decease. There maybe slightly different regulations in Australia these days but this medal is a British award to a British sailor (was he naturalised?) and the sale is in London.

    I expect Lord Aschcroft might be all over this one as he already owns the other two VC from the same action and his collection includes more than 180 VC. It is on display at the Imperial War Museum.

    It will be very interesting to see where this one goes. Hopefully an award as significant as this will not disappear into an underground vault and hidden from public view!!

    Regards

    Mark

    In relation to this I would add the follow (duly acquired from Wikipedia!)

    The original royal warrant involved an expulsion clause that allowed for a recipient's name to be erased from the official register in certain wholly discreditable circumstances and his pension cancelled.[74] Eight were forfeited between 1861 and 1908.

    King George V felt very strongly that the decoration should never be forfeited and in a letter from his Private Secretary, Lord Stamfordham, on 26 July 1920, his views are forcefully expressed:

    The King feels so strongly that, no matter the crime committed by anyone on whom the VC has been conferred, the decoration should not be forfeited. Even were a VC to be sentenced to be hanged for murder, he should be allowed to wear his VC on the scaffold.[31]

    The power to cancel and restore awards is still included in the Victoria Cross warrant.[75] The last award to be forfeited was in 1908 and none have been restored

    Since 1879, more than 300 Victoria Crosses have been publicly auctioned or advertised. Others have been privately sold. The value of the VC can be seen by the increasing sums that the medals reach at auctions.

  9. #9

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    Agree with watchdog. Lord Ashcroft has very deep pockets and will outbid anyone else

  10. #10

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    Hello Everyone,

    A few photographs of Seaman James Gorman VC

    A Victoria Cross for auction soon

    James Gorman VC

    A Victoria Cross for auction soon

    A Victoria Cross for auction soon

    A Victoria Cross for auction soon

    A Victoria Cross for auction soon

    A Victoria Cross for auction soon

    Victoria Cross and Medals awarded to Seaman James Gorman

    Click to enlarge photographs in a new page

    Best wishes

    Andrzej

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