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WW1 Military Cross

Article about: Hi I am interested in a military cross grouping and would appreciate any opinions on originality of the one attached. Cannot see any issues with the MC but at the price asked wanted to make

  1. #1

    Default WW1 Military Cross

    Hi
    I am interested in a military cross grouping and would appreciate any opinions on originality of the one attached. Cannot see any issues with the MC but at the price asked wanted to make sure. I know the pics are poor but all I have for now. Thank you, nic.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture WW1 Military Cross   WW1 Military Cross  


  2. #2

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    Hi Nic, looks ok so far but better pics are really needed.

    Cheers, Ade.
    Had good advice? Saved money? Why not become a Gold Club Member, just hit the green "Join WRF Club" tab at the top of the page and help support the forum!

  3. #3

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    Quote by Adrian Stevenson View Post
    Hi Nic, looks ok so far but better pics are really needed.

    Cheers, Ade.
    I agree with Ade based on these pics but also as stated I agree these pics are not good enough to make a decision on such an amout of cash.

    I would want to see the MIC for this officer to confirm that the group is complete and that there is no entitlement to either the 1914 or 14-15 star. As this is a late war award and he seem to have been a captain at the time it may be unlikely given the prevailing rates of attrition among officer ranks. However, given that he was artillery rather than infantry it is theoretically possible that he served as a subaltern in the early part of the war or maybe was commissioned from the ranks. I would at least want to verify what should be in the group.

    I would also want to see good images of the impressed detail on the rim of the BWM and Victory medals as it is not at all unusual for these to have been altered. That can be for genuinely honest reasons of replacing missing medals but can also be for dishonest reasons too. Either way originality is affected.

    Sorry if you already have these points in mind (I expect you do if you are in the market for such a group) but they are worth mentioning here for the benefit of others reading this.

    I think the asking price is around where it should be for an attributable group such as this but as I say, I would want to check the attribution (provenance), completeness and authenticity.

    Knowledge of the dealer and their trading policies would be useful too especially especially if this is on our favourite on-line selling platform!

    Regards

    Mark
    Last edited by Watchdog; 01-12-2021 at 10:46 AM. Reason: Typo
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  4. #4

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    Thank you both for the guidance and info. I have his MIC details as below. The item is being sold by The Medal Centre whom i have not dealt with before and they have a shop in Hexham and are online, thank you, nic
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture WW1 Military Cross   WW1 Military Cross  

    WW1 Military Cross  

  5. #5

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    The dealer also sent me the attached photos of the BWM and Victory Medal, thank you,nic
    Attached Images Attached Images WW1 Military Cross  WW1 Military Cross 

  6. #6

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    Quote by comleyn View Post
    Thank you both for the guidance and info. I have his MIC details as below. The item is being sold by The Medal Centre whom i have not dealt with before and they have a shop in Hexham and are online, thank you, nic
    Good, no star then as he only entered theatre in 1916.

    Pic of the rims is too small to authenticate but they look OK.

    I don't know the Medal Centre so I can't comment but if they have a shop and online presence they should at least be accountable.

    Maybe others here have experience with that dealer?

    Regards

    Mark
    PS If you do acquire the group don't forget to follow up on this thread with some good pictures!
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  7. #7

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    Maybe it's just the pictures, or even my eyesight, but the ribbon on the MC appears to have a reinforced edge indicative of a modern replacement. Note the other two medals appear to have their original ribbons, as indicated by the scalloped edges. If this is in fact the case, and the MC ribbon is a modern replacement, I'd want to know why the ribbons on the other awards weren't replaced as well. It doesn't write off the group, and I may even be wrong, but it's worth bearing in mind.

    B.B.

  8. #8

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    Quote by BrodieBartfast View Post
    Maybe it's just the pictures, or even my eyesight, but the ribbon on the MC appears to have a reinforced edge indicative of a modern replacement. Note the other two medals appear to have their original ribbons, as indicated by the scalloped edges. If this is in fact the case, and the MC ribbon is a modern replacement, I'd want to know why the ribbons on the other awards weren't replaced as well. It doesn't write off the group, and I may even be wrong, but it's worth bearing in mind.

    B.B.
    It's a good point BB and I do see what you mean but the MC ribbon is really hard to tell for sure from pictures unless they are extremely good quality and rather large.
    Also, these medals do not appear to be mounted on a bar and if they are it wasn't done by a tailor who knew what he was doing. If these have been a family curiosity as most that belonged to a casualty tend to have been and they are not mounted together then it is very likely that the MC is the one that has been hauled out on every family occasion to be handled by several generations of descendants which is just as likely to have made the ribbon grubby and in need of replacement. Just my opinion but I think that a medal as significant to many families as the MC, tends to be accorded the respect of people who want it to look smart when shown off. Personally I prefer the original ribbons in most cases but for the reasons stated I have no issue with the good quality replacement ribbons now availabe. Many dealers seem to sell groups with replaced ribbons without routinely discounting the asking price unless you ask and it becomes a "deal breaker". It is the nasty cheap versions of the watered ribbons such as the 14-15 Star and Victory medals the really bother me!!

    Regards

    Mark
    Last edited by Watchdog; 01-12-2021 at 03:27 PM. Reason: Typo
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  9. #9

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    Quote by Watchdog View Post
    It's a good point BB and I do see what you mean but the MC ribbon is really hard to tell for sure from pictures unless they are extremely good quality and rather large.
    Also, these medals do not appear to be mounted on a bar and if they are it wasn't done by a tailor who knew what he was doing. If these have been a family curiosity as most that belonged to a casualty tend to have been and they are not mounted together then it is very likely that the MC is the one that has been hauled out on every family occasion to be handled by several generations of descendants which is just as likely to have made the ribbon grubby and in need of replacement. Just my opinion but I think that a medal as significant to many families as the MC, tends to be accorded the respect of people who want it to look smart when shown off. Personally I prefer the original ribbons in most cases but for the reasons stated I have no issue with the good quality replacement ribbons now availabe. Many dealers seem to sell groups with replaced ribbons without routinely discounting the asking price unless you ask and it becomes a "deal breaker". It is the nasty cheap versions of the watered ribbons such as the 14-15 Star and Victory medals the really bother me!!

    Regards

    Mark
    You've made some very good points of your own in turn. I wasn't sure in the first place, especially as it's a white ribbon against a white backing card, but I thought it was worth pointing out. Some like reproductions ribbons, others can't stand them. Personally I've always preferred the originals, even if they are worn and grubby. Though of course there's no way to know if the ribbon has always been with the medal, even if it is an original one.

    For the sake of future reference, I've found a couple of images. Original ribbon on the left, modern production on the right. I do note the white fields of the older MC ribbon seems to be more cream-coloured, though that may just be down to age or lighting.

    WW1 Military CrossWW1 Military Cross

    B.B.

  10. #10

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    Hello Comleyn,

    Please find below the MiC for him showing the obverse and reverse :

    WW1 Military Cross

    Medal index Card obverse

    WW1 Military Cross

    Medal index Card reverse

    Hope they help you

    Best wishes

    Andrzej

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