WWI replacement medal ribbons

[Watchdog]

Good afternoon gents,

I was at the Aldershot Medal Fair yesterday and I found something that surprised me and I thought may be of use to other collectors who don't specialise in medals but like me have an interest;

Medal ribbons have always been an issue as they wear out long before the medal especially before they end up in the safe custody of a proper collector!

This is no more true than in the case of WWI medals that have lain in sheds, attics and cupboards for 100 years now.

The three most commonly found are of course the "Trio" of 1914 or 1914-15 Star, The British War Medal and The Victory Medal aka "Pip, Squeak and Wilfred"! Many are found without ribbons and those that have been worn at so many remembrance parades and functions have seen better days so many veterans and descendants have wanted to replace them.

There have long been "aftermarket" ribbons for exactly this purpose but in recent years with the change of manufacturing techniques these replacements are now not much like the originals at all.

Finding original ribbons for the BWM and Victory Medal is still possible as many were never used and became separated from the medals over time.

For some reason the ribbon for the 1914-15 Star is much harder to find and by its very nature is harder to reproduce so that is the one I focus on here.

The reproduction ribbons have always been very very obvious and not very appealing. They stick out like a sore thumb!

What I saw yesterday was a large range of modern "watered" ribbons very close to the originals and the quality is far superior to that hitherto available. They are all discernable as reproductions but if you consider the examples I show here it becomes clear that maybe one need not try so hard to find an original unless you are as picky as we collectors tend to be.

The older reproduction is almost "pixelated" in appearance and someone with knowledge will spot it from some distance. The new "watered" ribbon is much closer to the original and most would consider it a good replacement if not actually mistake it for the original.
The main differences seem to me to be in the proportions of the stripes of red,white and blue. The width of the "watering" is less on the reproduction, the ribbing is more pronounced on the reproduction and the white edge less so.

These were not being sold as originals and were offered by very prominent and respected dealers as reproductions. However, I am sure we all know that one way and another they will end up on medals in groups without being declared as replacements.
I like them in their place but;

Caveat Emptor



What do you guys think?

Regards

Mark

[Ubique]

Good replicas being sold as originals???
Noooo, that could neveeer happen.
Vendors are all honest ... aren't they?

Good post Mark!

Oz.

[Jerry B]

Some of the medal groups I own have the most horrible replacement ribbons on them and I try to grab any originals I see, but they are not cheap.

To be honest, unless they really are good and are sensibly priced, I will stick to buy originals when I can.

I think the proof of the pudding is in the feel as much as the look of them.

[Watchdog]

I agree entirely Jerry and I would always try to avoid repro ribbons. So far, I am fortunate that I don't have any on my medals but you are also correct that there are some around with the most dreadful copy ribbons. I also "hoover up" any spare ribbons I find in useable condition. Even a tatty piece found in a box of junk is generally worth keeping.

The worst are easily spotted but these, whilst obvious enough when new and bright if weathered a little will not be so easy to pick out for anyone with less than an expert eye.

I picked on the 1914-15 Star ribbon because it seems to me to be the one that is the most often missing or in need of replacement in the WWI trios and is probably the best example for a comparison. There was just about every British WWI & WWII ribbon I could think of for sale at £1 for 6 inches or £5 per yard. I don't know for sure what they are made of but it certainly feels like silk rather than the more harsh synthetics we are used to.

As I say, these were on the tables of well respected dealers and clearly sold as reproduction. However, I could also see quite a few groups with repro ribbons offered by various sellers. Every seller I asked said yes of course they were repros but then I already knew. I wonder, If I hadn't and had just been prepared to accept them as seen how many would have pointed this out?
It's great that a higher standard of repro is now available for those who want to smarten up a group for, say, a family display but we collectors who prefer our "diamonds in the rough" need to be aware of these repros however well intentioned they are.

Regards

Mark

PS I don't know why I didn't enquire at the time but I will try to find out more about these ribbons and post it here.

[Jerry B]

If it is as good as you say and feels alright in the hand, then £5 a yard is not too bad and probably worth getting a yard of each of the trio of medal ribbons, just in case.

[Will Junior]

Hello Fellow Collectors, a friend of mine (from the UK) asked me how they could order replacement medals for their ancestor that served in World War I. They have their ancestor's discharge (demobilisation) papers and with that, the papers so have the veteran's serial number and places of service. From what they mentioned, this ancestor served as part of the home guard and did not see action overseas. Nonetheless, with the demobilisation papers in hand, is there a specific government division they can write to obtain replacement medals? Thank you. (I am posting this message here on this string and another string as well).

[Watchdog]

There is no official source of replacements ordinarily. The only official possibility is if the original medals were not actually issued and then only the next of kin is able to submit a claim.

There have been cases when replacements have been issued as "Duplicates" and marked as such but I doubt the chances of making a case for this in these circumstances even if the facility still exists.

If it is just campaign medals most are easily obtained as single medals. However, it would be necessary to have the original details erased then impressed with new details. There are numerous dealers in UK who offer this service however, the new details will likely appear obvious and of course the original historical artifact has been forever altered when the details of the original recipient are removed.

I can see why a veteran might want to do this but for any other reason it is not something I would ever consider.

Also, the Home Guard did not exist in WWI but there was the Volunteer Training Corps which was not much like the later Home Guard and would not attract medal entitlement. Plus if there was no oversea service I struggle to think of any medal entitlement unless we are talking about Boer War service etc in which case the situation is even less hopeful.

Sorry.

Mark

[Adrian Stevenson]

I have just had a large quantity of original ribbons come into work, WW1 & WW2 plus some early postwar.

[HARRY THE MOLE]

Sometimes there really is no alternative but to use reproduction medal ribbons. I have a WW1 trio to an MM winner who served in the Black Watch, but they came minus the MM and minus the ribbons. As Mark points out, some of the ribbons produced now are of very good quality. Some of the 'copy' medals which relatives purchase to replace missing medals are of equally good quality, but there are some that are truly dreadful. Here is a 1914/15 'Mons Star' currently being offered on fleabay. And before you say that nobody would be stupid enough to buy it, the dealer has sold 177 of them so far.

Cheers,
Steve

[Jerry B]

Hello Fellow Collectors, a friend of mine (from the UK) asked me how they could order replacement medals for their ancestor that served in World War I. They have their ancestor's discharge (demobilisation) papers and with that, the papers so have the veteran's serial number and places of service. From what they mentioned, this ancestor served as part of the home guard and did not see action overseas. Nonetheless, with the demobilisation papers in hand, is there a specific government division they can write to obtain replacement medals? Thank you. (I am posting this message here on this string and another string as well).

I don't think medals were issued if he did not serve abroad in WWI