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A Legal Question

Article about: Hello folks. I thought I’d put this question up on the forum, as research has turned up varying opinions with no clear answers either way. I’m currently in the process of putting togethe

  1. #1

    Default A Legal Question

    Hello folks.

    I thought I’d put this question up on the forum, as research has turned up varying opinions with no clear answers either way. I’m currently in the process of putting together a setup for my Browning M1919, and would like some original .30-06 rounds to display on the cloth belt. However, wartime .30-06 is not at all common here in the UK. I have noticed that many US dealers sell factory sealed cartons of WWII vintage, though obviously as they are live rounds importing them as is is a huge no-no.

    My question is thus. If someone on the other side of the pond were to render these rounds inert for me, by flushing the powder and firing the primers, would it be legal to send over the empty casings and projectiles separately, to be reconstituted into inert rounds here? The rounds in question are armour-piercing, so no issues with tracers or incendiary elements being involved.

    I have had spent brass sent over before, so I know that isn’t an issue. My main concern is the projectiles. I would be looking at two twenty-round boxes, so not a significant quantity. Just enough to fill a belt from an ammunition box to the gun itself.

    Any advice on this from those in the know is appreciated. I don’t wish to run afoul of UK or US customs, and thought it better to ask rather than going all-in and getting myself in trouble.

    Kind regards, B.B.
    ''Everyday you think of living. We are born to die, but I appreciate life. We live day by day, and I always say: yesterday is history, today's reality, and tomorrow's a dream.' -- Henry Flescher, Holocaust Survivor -- March 14, 1924 - August 29, 2018

  2. #2

    Default

    Tough One BB ...and Im not one that would know the restrictions....the worse part are the hidden details of the laws regarding the projectiles shipping them overseas.

    Surely there will be some of the Ordnance Gents that may be able to assist you since these guys would know best.
    Maybe move the thread to that forum and can leave it here for the time being.

    Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  3. #3

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    Quote by Larry C View Post
    Tough One BB ...and Im not one that would know the restrictions....the worse part are the hidden details of the laws regarding the projectiles shipping them overseas.

    Surely there will be some of the Ordnance Gents that may be able to assist you since these guys would know best.
    Maybe move the thread to that forum and can leave it here for the time being.

    Regards Larry
    Thanks, Larry. I thought it best to ask here, as I know we have a lot of American members who’ll know the ins and outs better than I do. I’m hoping someone will know the fine details of those laws, as I really don’t want to try it if it’s going to land me in any kind of trouble. My intentions aren’t nefarious, but customs won’t know that, and aren’t likely to be sympathetic if I misstep.

    As for moving the thread, I wouldn’t mind if it was moved to the ordnance section. It would definitely be better-placed there.

    B.B.
    ''Everyday you think of living. We are born to die, but I appreciate life. We live day by day, and I always say: yesterday is history, today's reality, and tomorrow's a dream.' -- Henry Flescher, Holocaust Survivor -- March 14, 1924 - August 29, 2018

  4. #4

    Default

    Midsouth Shooters will ship reloading components, including bullets, to other countries. Of course these are not WWII era bullets, but I would guess that the same restrictions would apply to the bullets your friend would send to you. According to the midsouth shooters site
    International Sales | MidsouthShootersSupply.com
    These item(s) may require additional paperwork and expense:

    Barrels
    Bullets
    Brass
    Ammunition
    Primers
    Air Guns
    There may also be other regulated merchandise in your country.

    Please contact your post office for further restrictions and cost. All customs fees are responsibility of customer.

  5. #5
    CBH
    CBH is offline
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    Default

    Have you considered having bullets 3-D printed, and using spent casings.
    This should be totally legal as it’s an actual bullet and could be painted to match originals.
    Just a thought, as I know the legal issues with ammunition is a minefield, no pun intended.
    Cheers Chris

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote by CBH View Post
    Have you considered having bullets 3-D printed, and using spent casings.
    This should be totally legal as it’s an actual bullet and could be painted to match originals.
    Just a thought, as I know the legal issues with ammunition is a minefield, no pun intended.
    It’s a good idea, but I don’t have a 3D printer, or easy access to one. Plus, someone might start asking questions if I ask to borrow their printer and start making bullets!

    I’m thinking the best way around the problem may be to find some modern inert .30-06, pull out the projectiles and stick them in the WWII cases. If I paint the tips black, they’ll look functionally correct. Much better than running the gauntlet with international customs, at any rate.

    B.B.
    ''Everyday you think of living. We are born to die, but I appreciate life. We live day by day, and I always say: yesterday is history, today's reality, and tomorrow's a dream.' -- Henry Flescher, Holocaust Survivor -- March 14, 1924 - August 29, 2018

  7. #7
    MAP
    MAP is online now
    ?

    Default

    Did you ask UK Customs? Might be worth a shot.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  8. #8
    ?

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    You can’t have armour piercing rounds with the core still in there below 20mm. They would have to have the core removed. Loophole would be owning the core and and the projectile as two separate entities that in theory “ don’t touch” but what’s the point as you don’t see the core anyways once in the casing

    Overall this isn’t worth it imo. Why not just get some modern PPU rounds. Add a little paint to the projectile tips and make it look nice. Unless someone zooms into the headstamps who would notice the difference. Hell even just touch the rounds a lot and add patina to the rounds

    Also unless you are using a middle man I imagine all US dealers probably don’t want to try send ammo out the country. Even if it’s deactivated. I once looked for a Chassepot cleaning rod from the states. They wouldn’t even ship that. The middle man option wouldn’t make sense as an extension and it would look awkward for both parties. I have had cartridges that have obviously been stopped in the U.K. postage domestically.. Overseas postage would be a lot more harsh! I have seen dealers in the eu get warning letters sent to there homes for sending prohibiting items in the post (not for items I have bought, just what I see in a Facebook group I am in just to make my feed interesting)

    Not worth it imo. Too much hassle.

  9. #9

    Default

    Thank you for the input, everyone. I do think this will turn out to be more hassle than it's worth. Modern rounds are probably the best solution, and being slightly cheaper, I may go all the way and try to fill out a whole belt. That's 250 rounds, so no small task, but worth it in the end, I think.

    I don't suppose anyone knows of a place where I could purchase some empty cardboard cartons for WWII-era .30-06? I'm specifically after 30 cal AP M2, as that's what's stenciled on the side of the ammo box I've just picked up for the display. Just two or three cartons would do the job.

    Quote by MAP View Post
    Did you ask UK Customs? Might be worth a shot.
    I haven't enquired with them personally, but I know component parts for ammunition aren't illegal to own in the UK, as long as they're free from any kind of explosives. It's the US side that would prove problematic, and so I think this is one idea best left on the drawing board.

    B.B.
    ''Everyday you think of living. We are born to die, but I appreciate life. We live day by day, and I always say: yesterday is history, today's reality, and tomorrow's a dream.' -- Henry Flescher, Holocaust Survivor -- March 14, 1924 - August 29, 2018

  10. #10
    MAP
    MAP is online now
    ?

    Default

    We can buy live ammo via the mail, but never thought if there would be a prohibition on shipping outside of the US. Something I don't know. Sorry.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

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