Mystery 75mm Artillery Shell ??

[Robski]

Wow
Very interesting. It is obviously picked up soon after it was fired and perhaps it skipped off the ground and landed on the surface somewhere. I am hoping for Gallipoli.

You can see the abrasion marks where the Fuse assembly is slightly flattened and deformed.

I am on an Oil Rig in Northern British Columbia for a few weeks so this is the best I can do with the photos on my phone.

A close up of the roman numbers on the fuse assembly.

I can take some better photos when I get home.

Best Regards
Rob

[Teck 147]

That narrows it down a bit. Vegetius is going down the right track (the missing driving band makes it more of a Challenge). The Grenade is most likely a Krupp or Ehrhardt production of Schneider type. The first fuse well necks it down to take a German design fuse probably 45 or 50mm which the buyer apparently didn't want or have, so there's an Adapter to a (most likely) 24mm fuse well to take a French Design fuse.
Quite a few countries were taking Delivery from both Sides before the War came and everyone was supposed to choose a Side
A lot of the Balkan States weren't really politically Allied with anyone and didn't have a big weapons industry so these mixes weren't uncommon down there.

[Robski]

Hello

I am back and have done more detailed measurements.

The most interesting thing is that the 13mm wide Fuse adapter is in fact Lead not steel. It definitely appears to adapt a different fuse assembly to the body.

Working on using a digital microscope to better investigate the markings on the bottom.

The machining for the Driving Band Area definitely has a slight "lip" undercut into it secure the missing band.

Cheers
Rob

[Robski]

Here are closeups of the markings on the base. They do look kind of Arabic but I am not sure.

Best Regards
Rob

[Teck 147]

The markings definately look Arabic…
The only one I've seen somewhere else is the "open Ring" with the dot in the middle…. I think it was a 75mm for the Krupp Mountain Gun but I'm not sure anymore if it is it would surely Point to a mountainous Region like the Balkan or Bosporus.

The ring you describe as being Lead is probably Antimony which wasn't uncommon the softer metal makes for a good pre-detirmined Breaking Point when firing Shrapnel Shells that use burster charges (often combined with ejector charges)
I've not seen a Turkish Shell (WW1) with a Percussion Fuze before, I had the Impression they were only using T & P of German design which wouldn't need to be adapted down to the Brass Fuze well which your Shell has.

Now the Problem...
Skoda (Austro-Hungarian), Krupp (German), Schneider (France) and presumably Putilov (Russian 76,2mm) and God knows who else where supplying in one way or another all sides in the Balkan War with 75mm.

Everyone captured and used something from the other side then took it into WW1 and it just got worse after that. The Guns Vegetius referred to as deliverd to Turkey were (I think) the Krupp ones actually reserved for Brazil. On top of that almost the entire Arsenal of Serbia was divided up as they effectively disbanded for a short Time.


I don't have anything on Balkan/Turkish Artillery because they were mainly just customers from someone else and didn't have a mentionable Industry themselves. I do however know someone that was doing UXO/EOD in the Region so I'll get him to look at it.

[vegetius]

Teck,

There was a train load of German ammunition, (several hundred tonnes) destined for the Turkish Army and marked with 'worm speak' that was shall we say prematurely off loaded in the Balkans during WW1. The items do crop up there surprisingly often! Oh and 5 tours in the Balkans and 1 and a bit in Kosovo I suppose counts as working in the Balkans mate.

R

[Teck 147]

Was under the Impression the turks stopped recieving "wormed" Ammunition from Germany after Ataturk took over, for him it all had to be westernised. All part of the modernisation of Turkey

[Robski]

Hello

I had no idea how interesting this item is.

I am very glad I posted it.

I was able to easily scratch the metal band with my fingernail. Antimony is definitely a possibility.

Thanks for all the information.

Regards
Rob

[vegetius]

Quote: "Was under the Impression the turks stopped recieving "wormed" Ammunition from Germany after Ataturk took over, for him it all had to be westernised. All part of the modernisation of Turkey"

Teck,

Not sure of that but I've had several items both in that area and recovered from that area that were decidedly Imperial German in origin but with Worm speak on them. 75mm was I think on reflection probably the most common. I wonder if we are looking at a Fuze Adaptor for a Turkish Fuze? The other common one was those bloody awful Ball Grenades that are either GP or HE filled. Always fun trying to see what size reaction you get to Positive EOD Action!

R

[Teck 147]

Turks where mainly using the T&P c/20 German origin in WW1. I have absolutely no Idea if they had their own devices. Why should they? Everyone else was more than willing to deliver