Ordnance QF 2-pounder AP round

[Jb4046]

One of my recent pick ups. This complete 2pdr round with repainted projectile

For being Britain’s early war main tank armaments and towed anti tank it was a pretty good choice. I don’t think for the battle for France there would of been a German tank that could resist the 2 pounder. By 1941 it would still been an alright choice but definitely by 1942 with better armoured stug 3s, panzer IIIs and IVs it was now very much obsolete in the European and African fronts. But for the Asian theatre Japanese tanks were never produced with thick armour in mind so the 2 pounder served on there with much greater success in later part of the war.

Of course there were later attempts to upgrade the 2 pounder with APCBC ammo and HVAP rounds and little John adapters so I guess even by 1944 it was still useful for the armoured cars like the Daimler that were not designed to fight tanks


The casing is from 1942 and was made by RLE but I can’t seem to find a maker. Of course it is marked cordite filled. I am not bothered by the projectile being repainted since it’s a pretty good job regardless and makes for a much better display piece all round. For scale I have included a picture of a Canadian crew loading a 2 pounder round into the breech in a valentine tank. Also there are photos of the primer protector and on and off the base of the shell casing

Thanks for having a look.
John

[normandie44]

Hello
In fact the maker is RLB, for Royal Laboratories, Birtley

[Jb4046]

Ah I thought it said RLE, now that I zoomed in I do noticed the right side of B is just super faint

[randi]

thanks for sharing, i had never heard of a primer protector before, and never seen protectors being used in any ww2 footage on youtube or in any artillery scenes from hollywood .

i remember i had a similar piece of metal in my collection, i thought it was a fire extinguisher holder , it has a similar ESS mark, and instead of No 30 , it has No 31. radius 6.5cm.
Do you know what cartridge it could have came from ( it would be around 5" ) . many thanks

[Jb4046]

Edit - ignore what I said did noticed it was radius you put

[Jb4046]

Just checked the base of my 3,7inch AA shell and 6.5cm is the radius of the base so we have a match!

[vegetius]

John,
" I don’t think for the battle for France there would of been a German tank that could resist the 2 pounder." I would have to disagree. The Pz III and IV were both used in 1940 although the short 75mm on the IV was much better as an infantry support gun!

The 2 Pdr was so poor it was relegated to use as a static defensive weapon in Pill Boxes in UK. That said due to the light tanks in the desert it had a varied success.

The main problem outside the lack of armour defeating capability is the lack of a dedicated HE round for infantry support which meant that all the tanks in combined arms operations were only able to provide support with co-ax or hull MG's.

Your primer protection is a Cartridge Clip. Cart Clips are definitely in use in WW1, ( I found several dozen on carts in Ypres in an 18 Pdr position I excavated), and remain in use for both QF Fixed and Semi Fixed right up to today where the 105mm still is fitted with one! A good example for a 6 Pdr is in the Treatise of Ammunition 1915 page 397.

[Jb4046]

I said by 1942 the better armoured pz3 and pv4 came into service ( like the Pz3M and PZ4G with 50mm and 80mm respectively) before then in 1940 the best variations of panzer 3 and 4 had something like 30mm of armour max and the 2 pounder could still penetrate them up to around 500m I think.

I think I will dig out my old 2 pounder tank scope and post it here again just for interest

[randi]

Just checked the base of my 3,7inch AA shell and 6.5cm is the radius of the base so we have a match!

thanks for the ID for my primer protector!

i can imagine they were a pain to use when you are trying to lob more shells at your opponent before he hits you, but if you slept alongside a magazine of shells,
having them on might help you relax a bit.

i found this in a postwar joint excersizes report on the subject of protectors:


https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a077285.pdf

[eddy8men]

the 2 pounder was a very good gun at the start of the war and even later on with the squeeze bore it could hold it's own. it was capable of penetrating a tiger from the front at 100m, a fact which annoys many tiger lovers