Panzerkampfabzeichen silber original or fake?

[Helmets762]

Hi guys, just recently acquired this panzer assault badge, and was wondering if I could get your thoughts on it whether it is real or not. Its marked FLL 43, and had some slight concerns on its originality, primarily concerned with details on the treads and machine gun port. Thanks

[Alex5k]

Looks alright to me but i am no expert, so i would wait for some more experienced members to comment

[MAP]

This is a Type 1.5.4 Friedrich Linden (Ludenscheid) solid zinc PAB. It is the only marked FLL

The catch is a variant ("?" shape with round base plate)

That said, I do have three open questions that I will throw out there for discussion (or until I can do a bit more research)

1) The "43" date appears a bit odd. There is a larger gap between the two numbers (4 & 3) than what I would expect (and the "3" appears to be canted a bit)
2) In looking at the reverse cut outs, there is much more of the pointed wing feathers showing than the example I looked at.
3) Would like to see a close up photo of the hinge taken from the side

These all may be fine, I just haven't researched deeply enough yet.

Finally, TBH, these photos are not very good. Lacking focus as well as not being straight on photos (as such I can not confirm your concerns over the obverse details.)

[rbminis]

Unfortunately, this one is a fake.
You can compare to this bronze with the same set up as the one you posted,
Panzerkampfabzeichen in Bronze, FLL 43, Freiderich Linden, Ludenschied
Or, this silver with a different catch set up.
Panzerkampfabzeichen in Silber, Freidrich Linden, Ludenschied
Compare the grass detail, the catch plate, and the gun port.
I suggest you try to get a refund.
Ralph.

[MAP]

Thanks Ralph.

It just was not adding up to me. There were other issues I saw but kept my concerns to just these I mentioned. Add to that poor quality photos and....

Thanks again.

M

[Helmets762]

Thanks for all the responses, and assistance. Sorry for the poor quality photos, here are a few more that may be slightly better. Luckily I do know the person whom I received the badge from, and he's allowed me to return multiple items in the past.

[MAP]

Thanks! While Ralph has already provided evidence on the obverse, another nail in the coffin is the lack of raised "guide lines" on the reverse of the award to align the hinge (look at his links to see what I mean).

Also the profile of the hinge is slightly off as well as the "shepherds crook" of the pin.

IMHO, your example will fool most collectors who don't take the time to research and judge based on initial appearance. Which is why it is so important to look at the smallest of details. But once you start looking you immediately start seeing lots of red flags.

[Helmets762]

Thank you, I wouldn't have noticed any of these details without all of your help. I recently started collecting various medals from WW2 and the cold war era this year, and am always learning new things from people like you guys. I'll definitely bring this one back this weekend to exchange.

[MAP]

Thank you, I wouldn't have noticed any of these details without all of your help. I recently started collecting various medals from WW2 and the cold war era this year, and am always learning new things from people like you guys. I'll definitely bring this one back this weekend to exchange.

If you are new to medals. My advice (which I do NOT follow myself), is to pick ONE medal type (EK, PAB, IAB, etc. etc.). Buy a good reference book (not cheap) and study the threads here. When you find one you like, study it, form your own opinion and post it on the forum with your views. The members here will confirm or correct you. But in the process you will learn and quickly. Once you have gained sufficient expertise then move on to one or two other awards.

A good reference book is typically the cost of one of these awards, but if it catches you buying one fake, you earned your money on the purchase.

[rbminis]

This one has been posted quite a few times in the past. It is close but not correct.
That is why I always tell new collectors to study originals, they will never change. If you study fakes, you will always be studying, because the fakers will always try to improve on their mistakes.
If you can look close enough or post a photo clear enough to distinguish the maker's mark, the vertical part of the "L"'s should have a reverse curve to them as in this example. That is the trait of this maker's mark, always.
Ralph.



While I do sort of agree with Michael's suggestion about buying books, I actually own few books on a lot of the awards I collect. I am not able to tell you the specific number of variant that someone has attached to the various badges but, what is more important is to be able to determine if they are original or not.
I recommend that you read threads like this one, the information is good and up to date. I spent many hours of reading on this forum and others to learn and am still doing so daily.
Can I make a mistake, of course I can but, hopefully one of our other members will pick up on it and correct whoever is wrong.
I pay the annual fees for 4 forums, to have access to their data bases. Their is no substitute for knowledge.