Unmarked Panzerkampfabzeichen in Bronze

[TWS]

This is an example I've owned for a long time and thought it curious. Referencing De Bock, I believe I may have pinned it down. It seems to conform to 5.8.1 Unknown Maker I, "So-called Flat Back" Dented. The dent is there but difficult to capture in photos. It is most definitely felt with a finger tip. It's the area in the correct place according to De Bock where the finish is visibly disturbed. Interestingly the catch is installed opening to the left when viewing the badge from the reverse. Perhaps an extra schnapps over lunch?

Appreciate it if fellow members can confirm/deny my identification. Comments or observations are welcome. Thanks

[MAP]

I think your correct Todd. Nice award from what I can see. Does deBock mention anything about the left opening clasp? You see this more often with some makers over others. (all my books are still packed away)

[rbminis]

Well, a little bit of an enigma for me Todd.
It has traits of an unknown maker III, "scooped out flat back", see page 579 in Philippe's book, but the hardware does not match.
The dish on the reverse does appear to be an unknown maker VI, "dish back", see page 599 in Philippe's book, but again, the hardware does not match.
I have no doubt that it is original but it may have been repaired at some time.
Ralph.

[MAP]

For discussion. I was thinking similar at first but the catch appears to still have to bronze wash on it.

[TWS]

I think your correct Todd. Nice award from what I can see. Does deBock mention anything about the left opening clasp? You see this more often with some makers over others. (all my books are still packed away)

Thanks Michael. No, De Bock doesn't mention anything about the left opening clasp.

Well, a little bit of an enigma for me Todd.
It has traits of an unknown maker III, "scooped out flat back", see page 579 in Philippe's book, but the hardware does not match.
The dish on the reverse does appear to be an unknown maker VI, "dish back", see page 599 in Philippe's book, but again, the hardware does not match.
I have no doubt that it is original but it may have been repaired at some time.
Ralph.

Good eye Ralph. Yes, this one is a bit of an enigma. It does appear that it might have the die flaws of 5.10 on page 579. However, those die flaws are more subtle than most and I am not entirely sure it exhibits them. It is also a perfect flat back aside from the dent (speculated to be caused by the die ejection device used in production).

I do not believe it is the 5.13.1 on page 599 because the dent appears to really be a dent and not the nice and uniform dish exhibited on that variant. Plus, your observation about the hardware. 5.13.1 has a round catch plate.

Check out page 568, for 5.8.1 Mine appears to have the same rectangular hinge and catch plates. It also has a round wire catch, which 5.8.1 seems to have (no photo from the side, only top, unfortunately). For those reasons, (and the irregularly shaped "dent"), 5.8.1 is my leading candidate, but I think your idea of 5.10 has merit.

I'll rest my eyes and check again to try and determine if I see the die flaws of 5.10 or not.

EDIT: I was so intent on checking reverse hardware that I missed something on the obverse. It definitely is not 5.13.1 due to the different driving lights. That's all for tonight. Tomorrow I'll compare again to 5.10.1 on pages 579-583.

[TWS]

For discussion. I was thinking similar at first but the catch appears to still have to bronze wash on it.

Yes. Good observation, plus the mounting of the catch is very clean. I am used to seeing excess solder/less clean of an install when a repair is involved.