Iron Cross First Class Award Certificate

**Yellow3** · 08-31-2012, 04:56 PM

Hi all,

I have looked though the threads on EK award certificates and have a copy of Forman's Guide, so I've seen that the lettering on this one is unlike that found most commonly on these certificates, but it does seem to almost match the variant letters on one in Forman's book (1st ed., v.1, top of p84). The paper certainly looks old and the lettering appears to be typed rather than printed on (as on modern repros) - the 'Josef' even goes uphill slightly.
Opinions please - is it an original?

Many thanks,
J.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 08-31-2012 04:56 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Paul D** · 08-31-2012, 05:34 PM

A document for the EK II /EKI should be signed by someone of General rank !!

**HPL2008** · 08-31-2012, 05:41 PM

And yet another case of fakers failing to get their German grammar right: "das Eisernen Kreuz 1. Klasse" instead of the correct "Eiserne"...

**Yellow3** · 08-31-2012, 05:47 PM

Hi Paul,

Ah, was this always the case? There is an example signed by Major (award to an Unteroffizier) and one by an Oberst (award to an Obergefreiter) in Forman's book... I had thought that it just had to be signed by someone of significantly higher rank than the person to which it was being awarded??

Are there any other clear pointers for it being a replica?

thanks!

**Woolgar** · 08-31-2012, 05:48 PM

by Yellow3

Hi Paul,

Ah, was this always the case? There is an example signed by Major (award to an Unteroffizier) and one by an Oberst (award to an Obergefreiter) in Forman's book... I had thought that it just had to be signed by someone of significantly higher rank than the person to which it was being awarded??

Are there any other clear pointers for it being a replica?

thanks!

I think the spelling mistake is conclusive

Nick

**Yellow3** · 08-31-2012, 05:48 PM

Well spotted HPL2008. Cheers!

**hucks216** · 08-31-2012, 11:10 PM

There are exceptions to the rule for the signers of EK citations with the main one that springs to mind being those for paras on Crete in 1941 because the relevant admin trail hadn't been set up on the island that close to the end of the battle, but if an EK was signed by an Oberst then it would be signed on behalf of the divisional commander so would have i.V. above the signature. Not only the spelling is a give-away but so is the stamp - it is for a Luftgaukommando and yet the signer is a regimental commander.

Simon Orchard · 09-02-2012, 12:10 PM

Hucks touches on an important point. It's not the rank of the signing officer that's important, it's level of the issuing authority. ie. an EK could be awarded at divisional level and thus had to be signed by or occasionally on behalf of the divisional commander, but the rank of the commander could, in theory, be anything.

**tempelhof** · 09-02-2012, 02:02 PM

unfortunately TOTALLY fake.

as already pointed out, in accusative case in German, you would see an "e" ending on "eiserne" and not "eN" when it follows a definite article like "das".

this is an incredibly gross error and precludes any possibility of this document being authentic.