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Julleuchter Award Document

Article about: I had just acquired this rare document named to an SS Oberscharfuhrer Werner Thieswald. I need Andreas HPL2008 eyes ...for the translation of this script ..Please. The document is a standard

  1. #1

    Default Julleuchter Award Document

    I had just acquired this rare document named to an SS Oberscharfuhrer Werner Thieswald.

    I need Andreas HPL2008 eyes ...for the translation of this script ..Please.

    The document is a standard form that is all printed including Himmlers name.
    Except at the top where the SSman is typed in with his SS Number.

    Any help would be appreciated ..thankyou

    Julleuchter Award Document
    Julleuchter Award Document
    Julleuchter Award Document
    Julleuchter Award Document

    The document looks better in hand
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

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  3. #2

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    Quote by Larry C View Post
    I had just acquired this rare document named to an SS Oberscharfuhrer Werner Thieswald.

    I need Andreas HPL2008 eyes ...for the translation of this script ..Please.
    It translates as:


    "The Reichsführer-SS

    Berlin, yule-tide 1937


    SS-Oberscharführer
    Werner Thiesswald
    (SS no. 50 326, staff of
    Oberabschnitt Nordwest)


    To my SS comrades!

    I give to you this
    Julleuchter.* It is modelled on an ancient piece that has survived from our people's early past.

    Its light shall burn in the night of the turn of the year, by our present-day customs, from 31 December to 1 January.

    The small light, which stands beneath the candlestick holder, may burn as a symbol of the expiring year in its last hour.

    The large light may ignite at the first moment when the new year is starting its course.

    There is deep wisdom in this old rite.

    May every SS man watch the old year's small flame go out with a clean, pure heart and be able to light the new year's light with an uplifted will.

    This I wish for you and your family today and for all the future.

    Heil Hitler
    !

    [H. Himmler]


    *) It literally means "Yule candlestick holder".



    I cannot comment on the document itself.

  4. #3
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    Default

    There are two examples of this document shown in the Ulric of England SS picture book book (p.61), both are unnamed.

    I wonder if it would be possible to see a better photo of the typed text? I may be mistaken, but the ss runes look a bit odd.

    Obviously these things are so easy to forge - I see that a website offers this type of certificate for USD5 - (I'm not going to advertise someone like that).

    Best regards, Philip

  5. #4

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    The SS Runes is there but lightly seen

    Julleuchter Award Document

    Thankyou Greatly Andreas and Dr.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  6. #5
    ?

    Default

    Larry, thanks for the better photo. Yes, the runes do look like they are have been typed with a proper machine. May be worth looking at the printed script under high magnification for any signs that it has been reproduced using a modern printer.

    I'd like to see some other examples of the presentation document personalised like this, especially if they have solid provenance.

    Given that other surviving examples are unnamed it’s hard not to suspect this one without some additional evidence. As the Julleuchter was a gift rather than an award, there doesn't seem to be a reason to personalise the document? If there had been, presumably the document would have been created with specific fields to be completed?

    Looking on-line, the few other examples of the document that come up are also not personalised. The only exception is this one: http://www.od43.com/1944_SS_Julleuchter_RB.html, which has a different form of overtyping. A question in this last case, arises from the statement in the Ulric book that the giving of the Julleuchter was suspended in 1944.

  7. #6

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    Beautiful original document. I have owned about 5 of these, some named, some not, some to officers, some to enlisted.

    Great find.

  8. #7

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    I used the word award as a description only ...and this paper after reading Andreas translation is not an award.
    The paper has been folded in quarters a long time ago ..and has remained flattened out also for many years as the folds seen on the document ...to not give way to folding over again.

    I also taken this to my work place and had a printing pressman and a digital pressman look at the type under a loupe and both came up with the same conclusion

    1. the paper is not the consistency seen in modern papers used today which this document shows some weave and larger thread type and pressing. The paper is very brittle and too delicate to go through any type of printer.

    2. The type itself it seems to have worn away over time and is not solid printed lettering. The photo appears on my end to give a false impression in the photo compared to what Im seeing under the eye loupe that the lettering is more filled in which is not the case.
    By the naked eye it is so ...through a loupe it is less. The photo is the best I can get for the time being.

    Julleuchter Award Document

    Modern digital print uses no ink ...but a ultra fine colored powder that is heated and applied to the paper. The coverage is more full and is topical and ANY digital press lacks impression. Under a loupe coverage is about 98% .

    I did not pay much for this document and would not think fakers would waste their time and effort which would cost more to reproduce using old paper than the selling price I paid for it. These photos do not do the whole picture any justice ..but to see it in hand one would agree its period.
    I know paper documents are a minefield these days and Im not naive thinking otherwise.

    I thank Andreas , Dr PMC and TitleKing for their valuable assistance.

    Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  9. #8

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    I assume you have used a black light ?

  10. #9

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    Larry,

    Did you ever get more info on this document? It seems very promising from other members response.

  11. #10

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    Hi Ben...yes I did and thankyou for replying to this thread

    I brought it to a 2015 Max Show and showed it to a document and signature specialist and is authentic ...Himmlers name is facsimile of the period widely used in award documents during the period.
    So Im quite happy with it since it is not easy to obtain and highlights my Julleuchter.

    Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

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