1895 BadenPickelhaube ersatz tin. Real deal?

[Kaikun2001]

Hi I just bought myself a new pickelhaube, and would like your opinion on it.

1st thing to note, I believe it has been slightly repainted on a few worn areas, here are the following pictures that I can provide.

I have been told the maker is Weissenbuger & Co of Stuttgart-Cannstatt(former baden).

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[MAP]

This type of Haub I'm not familiar with. I thought however the M1895's were 3 piece construction while the M1915 were a single stamping.

Andy knows more about these. He should be able to help out.

In the meantime......check out this link for the basics on these Ersatz haubs..

Ersatz Pickelhauben

[Kaikun2001]

Thanks for the swift reply. I believe this maker made ersatz in a more streamline and quickerway so without separate visors, you may encounter the same maker made in felt. Attachment 1562613 Attachment 1562614

[MAP]

I don't think you can compare a Felt Ersatz to a pressed steel example as they are totally different manufacturing processes.

That said, I will defer to others if these Weissenburger Steel "kit" helmets also came as a single pressed example.

But to Quote Kaisers Bunker in this link: Ersatz Pickelhauben (note - this example is Prussian)

"The Eisenblech Ersatz-Helme resemble the M1895 Pickelhaube are are often referred to as tin "kit helmets" ......These helmets were contracted on 14 October 1914 by the firm Weissenburger in Stuttgart-Cannstadt.....consist of a black lacquered helmet shell with separate front and rear visors that are slid onto a raised rib and held on with bent tabs...The brads for holding on the spike base are artificial and are actually pressed into the spike base, while the spike itself is pressed onto the helmet skull. The rear spine stops short of the spike base and is voice of the M1895 sliding vent. As well, these helmets have an interesting barrel method for attaching the Wappen onto the helmet rather than the standard loops on the rear of the Wappen"

Your example appears to differ in a number of areas. Particularily the brads as well as the mounting for the wappen.

The link also shows another manufacturer (Bing AG) that made a single piece helmet(but these are model M15 "war time" with steel fittings instead of brass.

Not saying yours is fake, just pointing out that it is probably not a Weissenburger (unless of course they made different variants. )

[Kaikun2001]

That’s very true, they are completely diffrent in their process, but surely they must have had their reasons to make their tin into a single pressed example. I would guess, that it made it easier and quicker to get the ersatz haubes out to the front, afterall making a 3 piece example takes much more longer. Its also worth mentioning that it has a faded size number, close to where to mounting of the spikepins, aswell as a AG stamp, which I would guess would stand for Hermann Weissenburger & Cie. AG Stuttgart-Cannstatt. Do you think anything looks of or not period?, I have been told that the spike has been reattached aswell as there is evidence of ghosting from a baden emblem. When taking of the wappen. Are these good signs?.

[AndyM35]

Hi Patrik , Eisenblech Pickelhaubes would have required a separate tooling up process compared to pressed felt haubes and this would have taken time. And by the time they tooled up, the first of the steel helmets (M16 square dip) would have been close to being issued). I guess these are similar to the spun steal examples which were produced very close to the introduction of the steel helmet as well. This is the reason I believe that it was pressed as a one piece shell - to speed up the process plain and simple. These were in effect the bridge to the first steel helmet.

There are not many examples of these to compare with but, as pointed out by MAP, your example shows numerous differences - at least to the examples that I have seen. I also note the bigger domed rivets either side on the ends of the front visor trim. Also the spike base on your example looks very flush with the top of the dome where the examples that I have seen are not flush. Could it be a Pickelhaube put together post war from various parts? Potentially, but I don’t have the experience with this particular type to be sure. Here’s an example of a Prussian tinplate Pickelhaube for comparison.
Andy

[Kaikun2001]

Thanks for your quick answer Andy.

That would make alot of sense, so this pickelhaube could have been pressed early 1916 then perhaps?. As others have pointed out, the spike is most likley a replacement, but a genuine spike none the less. The wappen on the front has ghosting which gives the outlines of a Baden emblem. So I think the wappen is genuine and period. However for the rest of the hardware like the spine on the back. I dont know if that was put together, but by the looks of it. It has the right patina that would sugguest it being there for a long time. As for the rivets on the outside, I saw a couple of Bing made ersatz which had the bigger rivets on the side. So I dont think its out of the realm of possiblity, But by far the most important question, do you think all is right with the haube tin itself?

I attached some photos below which shows some age/wear on the spine and perhaps on the spike, notice the white dust/ghosting.Attachment 1562618
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[AndyM35]

Agree with all you have said mate! These are in a realm all of their own. I think all parts are original pieces and yes, and as you so have said, show real patina.The crap Indian fakes don’t touch this....yet! And I agree with your comment about the Bing made ersatz which had bigger rivets on the side. I saw one today! During the frenzied production of helmets and equipment during WW1 as all armies faced a type of war in no way expected, were pieces mixed and matched? Very likely yes! Even the late wonderful collector and historian Michael Baldwin states many times in his immense, amazing and comprehensive works of the Feldzug series, “this is just my theory”. The truth is that many of the records and notes on these and TR helmets were destroyed during WW1, and thus we can only rely on the remaining evidence.

I think the haube shell is original in itself and the parts, but whether other parts were added, well as I said, I can’t give you a definitive answer. Still learning lol

But what I would suggest, is that you make a small donation to the website German Helmet Wallhalla, and I’m sure we can all get an answer.
Sorry, we could not find that!

Andy

[Kaikun2001]

Thanks for your great answer my friend ������. I believe there are lots of examples out there which can be considered irregular due to documentation being lost to time. I think its very exciting to uncover something new, perhaps my example is in a more gray area, where alot of information is missing. None the less, I am happy to have picked this one up. I have never been to that website, but I will be sure to make a donation and pay them a visit.

Thank you for all your inputs ������

[Chopperman]

The thing that I notice is the really soft detail in the wappen.