Hessen Pickelhaube Authentication and Information?

[3jusequlib]

Hello everyone!
Here is a recent find from an estate sale and completely out of my realm of collecting. In the week prior to the sale and the past two weeks since the purchase, I have been trying to educate myself online and have learned some basics. First, if the members could give me their opinions on the authenticity(or not) of this Pickelhaube that would be much appreciated. What I have learned is, this is either an officer or NCO Hessen Pickelhaube for a reservist and possibly a private purchase. I know it is missing one screw post in the cruciform and the crown of the leather helmet is somewhat flattened and thus the poor fitting of the cruciform to the helmet. Also, inside there is some points where the headliner has come slightly detached from the leather headband. However, the ONE big issue or question for me is the brass looking cruciform where as all the other metal components are silver in color. From what I have learned and seen online this is either a 'Frankensteined' part or the silver colored plating has evaporated over time from the brass cruciform! Any opinions on this subject would be great. Finally, if anyone can tell me any other information from the photos and/or about this helmet...I would love to be educated. Thank you ALL in advanced for your time and expertise!
Sincerely....Alex

[MAP]

This one has me scratching my head. Although there are so many different variations and I'm only familiar with the more generic types.

It is definitely private purchase (reserve) given the chinscale mounts, thin visor trim, fine stitching and the NCO/Officers Korkarden. But there are a lot of anomalies. Obviously as you note, the brass cruciform base, the enlisted "perlrings" at the base of the spike, the enlisted round base plate bolts and the very odd rear spine. Add to that rounded silver chinscales were only worn by one Hessian unit ( Lieb-Dragoner).

Not one I'm comfortable making a call on. Let's see what others say.

[3jusequlib]

Thank you MAP for your input. If I am assuming correctly...are the round base plate bolts you refer to here the ones attaching the cruciform to the helmet? If this is the case, to my understanding, Hessen Pickelhaube never used 'star' base plate bolts in any rank. Only the rounded type as I have here. BUT, I'm basing this off of what I have learned so far on the internet. I need a good reference book on Pickelhaube. Also, I'm not familiar with what the 'perlrings' are at the base of the spike. Can you elaborate on these? Again, much appreciated!

[MAP]

Just for the record, I'm not saying it is bad. Just that there were some attributes that seemed odd to me last night.

That said, post my comments yesterday, I started digging further and confirmed a few of the anomalies that noted are actually appropriate for a Hessian Officers Haube. First is the round base plate bolts (as you noted). Second is the lack of Perlrings (ring of pearls) at the base of the spike. They were not used on officer/NCO Hessian Haubes. ( see link describing Perlrings German Spiked Helmet Pickelhaube Rank Identification )

I will also add that the cruciform base plate is of the correct Hessian configuration with each arm being of equal length. But as to why it is brass and not silver I can't say.

And lastly I do no recognize that style of rear spine. But not a major concern for me at this point.

So, I think we are getting closer but not there yet. I would start researching the one Hessian unit ( Lieb-Dragoner) that I have read were the only ones with rounded silver chin scales.

[3jusequlib]

Just for the record, I'm not saying it is bad. Just that there were some attributes that seemed odd to me last night.

That said, post my comments yesterday, I started digging further and confirmed a few of the anomalies that noted are actually appropriate for a Hessian Officers Haube. First is the round base plate bolts (as you noted). Second is the lack of Perlrings (ring of pearls) at the base of the spike. They were not used on officer/NCO Hessian Haubes. ( see link describing Perlrings German Spiked Helmet Pickelhaube Rank Identification )

I will also add that the cruciform base plate is of the correct Hessian configuration with each arm being of equal length. But as to why it is brass and not silver I can't say.

And lastly I do no recognize that style of rear spine. But not a major concern for me at this point.

So, I think we are getting closer but not there yet. I would start researching the one Hessian unit ( Lieb-Dragoner) that I have read were the only ones with rounded silver chin scales.

Thank you so much MAP for doing homework on Hessen Pickelhaubes!!! I checked the link on the Perlrings, thanks by the way, and see now what you were referring to. As I was doing this, I could see the forward arm of the cruciform base was much shorter than on this Pickelhaube. Glad to know that some of the parts are lining up with the Hessen Helmet. I've got the day off tomorrow and plan on researching the Lieb-Dragoner Hessian unit.
Thank you for the education...Cheers, Alex

[MAP]

It was my pleasure as I'm learning as well. Almost every Haube has a learning curve and takes research given all the hundreds of variations.

Still some work to do with this one to confirm what it is.

[Kohima]

By the way, the brass cross is not a ‘Frankenstein’ part, but indicates a Reservist, and is completely legitimate.

[3jusequlib]

By the way, the brass cross is not a ‘Frankenstein’ part, but indicates a Reservist, and is completely legitimate.

Thanks for jumping in Kohima. I wasn't very clear in my initial posting. I was referring to the brass cruciform spike base not the Reservist Cross on the front Wappen insignia. Sorry, my bad! But please keep the conversation going.

[3jusequlib]

Just for the record, I'm not saying it is bad. Just that there were some attributes that seemed odd to me last night.

That said, post my comments yesterday, I started digging further and confirmed a few of the anomalies that noted are actually appropriate for a Hessian Officers Haube. First is the round base plate bolts (as you noted). Second is the lack of Perlrings (ring of pearls) at the base of the spike. They were not used on officer/NCO Hessian Haubes. ( see link describing Perlrings German Spiked Helmet Pickelhaube Rank Identification )

I will also add that the cruciform base plate is of the correct Hessian configuration with each arm being of equal length. But as to why it is brass and not silver I can't say.

And lastly I do no recognize that style of rear spine. But not a major concern for me at this point.

So, I think we are getting closer but not there yet. I would start researching the one Hessian unit ( Lieb-Dragoner) that I have read were the only ones with rounded silver chin scales.

I think the answer to the rear spine attached to this Hessen Pickelhaube is in this link: German Spiked Helmet Pickelhaube Rank Identification

Now, if we can get more thoughts on this brass cruciform spike base, that would just about wrap this up!

[3jusequlib]

Also, any thoughts on the ink stamp in the second to last photo above???

It's too bad I can't make out the hand writing in the last photograph. It is too faint. It would be nice to know what it says, also!