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08-15-2009 01:19 PM
# ADS
Circuit advertisement
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Re: Unknown stamp in an ersatz helmet
Ersatz Bataillons are common. It's a great helmet and apparently issued through that subunit, hence the stamp.
The how and why has to answered by an expert. The Ersatz system is rather complicated but it seems by 1915, the designation was the norm from Ersatz Division to Ersatz Kompanie.
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Re: Unknown stamp in an ersatz helmet
I always thought that the ersatz units were attached to dedicated ersatz regiments. Was it also common to find an ersatz battailon in a standard regiment?
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Re: Unknown stamp in an ersatz helmet
I don't know if it was standard or not but Ersatz bataillons were raised as part of regular regiments.
Here's a website (in German) that cites the Ersatz Bataillon raised in 1914 under Inf Regt 23
23. Königlich Bayerisches Infanterie-Regiment ?König Ferdinand der Bulgaren? ? Wikipedia
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Re: Unknown stamp in an ersatz helmet
Ersatz (replacement) regiments were attached to their parent regiments, and as such, could be marked, (though usually with a seperate mark), along with parent regiment regimentals on an item, such as a Pickelhaube, i am a little sceptical about these markings, Bavarian regimentals were usually applied within the domed area of the helmet (i have not seen Bavarian regimentals like those shown), and as far as i know not under the liner. Why is the regimental stamp on twice & in a different configuration ?....they have look of the fake markings that were applied to a number of 'Fake' felt helmets made in the 1970's in the U.K. & Prague. The helmet is great condition especially the interior, for a type of helmet that generally does not hold up to the rigours of time (despite being laquered) although that said, it does have the apperance of a an original piece. Can you read the makers stamp on the dome near to the spike & post ?.
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Re: Unknown stamp in an ersatz helmet
The maker stamp looks like "Schweitzer Muenchen" as illustrated on this site (scroll down). It's also identified as being on a black lacquered felt (Filz) Ersatz helmet but on a Prussian M95. Ink color is the same, etc. I would think the date under the name is 1915 as well.
Colonel J's - Articles -Helmet Makers
The regimental stamp for By. 3 Inf Rgt would be from the helmet's first acceptance (Abnahme) by the unit. Based on the type of letters, it could be an older stamp.
The second would be for the acceptance by the subunit. Since it's an Ersatz Bat. formed later, it has a complete stamp with Regt and Bat designation.
Why it is marked on the liner? A pure speculative guess would be that the regiment also received black tin helmets like the Heyden model...also black on the interior doom and visors. The order could have been to stamp those on the liner. If later Filz helmets arrived, the practice would be continued on those as well.
I've had both Wurtemberg and Prussian Heyden tin Pickelhauben. None were marked beyond the maker on the visor. But, one can never say it was never done.
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Re: Unknown stamp in an ersatz helmet
Thanks for the thoughts on this! I think the makers mark is Schweizer or Schwarzer, difficult to read.
I have handled many helmets also some that I believed were fakes; I am quite shure the helmet itself is OK but of course that would not rule out the marks beeing bad. But actually a stamp of the 3rd inf. rgt. would not be anything special and not worth faking. I was puzzled about the ersatz battailon because I thought that there was a strict separation between ersatz and standard regiments. Thanks for the information about this!
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Re: Unknown stamp in an ersatz helmet
Of all the tin picklhauben i have seen/examined the maker/unit marks have been marked on the interior of the helmet in white or red ink/paint, due to the interiors being finished in black, again i can find no reference to the inside of liners being such marked, but we digress & could start a discussion alone on 'tin' helms. I notice that Colonel J's article on depot/unit marks do not show the Bavarian 3rd Infantry Regiment marking in any of the configurations shown in the liner of the above helmet, (perhaps he should be informed) but as ' 3 J.R.' a typical Bavarian configuration. If any other forum members have pickelhaubes marked regimentally on the inside of the liner i would like to see them, we are allways learning, so you are correct pjm, you can never say never.
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Re: Unknown stamp in an ersatz helmet
Actually, the site shows the same marks from the same helmet. Perhaps they were just added.
Colonel J's - Articles - Kammer Marks
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Re: Unknown stamp in an ersatz helmet
the pickelhaube is original ? for me is an fake.
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