WW1 German Metal Spike Helmet?

[tony75]

Hello
What are your thoughts on this helmet?
I know it needs a lot of work

* I was thinking enlisted man
* What type of plate would go on here? It doesn't look like a typical Prussian plate would fit.
* I was thinking maybe dates around 1916

Thank you
Tony

[AndyM35]

Hi Tony,

An interesting helmet. Good quality hi resolution photos are a must for studying helmets, so better quality photos will certainly assist in working out exactly what you have. I am by no means an expert on these, but based on what can be seen in the photos, the body at least, appears to be made of some type of pressed steel or tin in the traditions of a war time ersatz helmet. These types of shells date from circa 1915 when leather became much harder to obtain and alternate materials were sort. There is a wide variety of configurations with Pickelhauben, however the majority of these ersatz helmets were mostly fitted with the regular M1915 hardware as seen on the regular leather version such as the M1895 chinstrap side posts, spike and Wappen, although some were not fitted with a rear spine. The body on this one reminds me of an O/S or Other Ranks ersatz metal Pickelhaube as seen on the Wuttemburg example below. Its hard to tell what the Kokarde is as it appears to be missing so much paint, so a high res photo would be very helpful. Better photos all round will greatly assist in identification.

Andy

[BlackCat1982]

It's had a hard life. I've never pulled one to bits working out how the helmet plate lugs would attach. I'd say the Kokarde is Prussian.

[AndyM35]

Yes, most likely a Reichs Kokarden but would like to see a closeup. Looks like most of the black paint is missing and it looks quite large, but perhaps the shell is small as the spike and M1895 chinstrap posts look a little large as well.

[tony75]

Hello

Thank you for help and information.
I will get better pics this weekend.
Thanks again
Tony

[tony75]

Hello
Here are better pics
Thank you
Tony

[AndyM35]

Thanks for the additional photos Tony. The spike, chinstrap hardware and kokade all look original and while the paint also shows age, I feel it may have been applied post war as the black paint on these was generally a gloss. I think there may be remnants of field grey paint and as these were also painted that colour, that may also have been the colour when originally issued as an ersatz helmet. The closeups of the kokade show remnants of black paint on the perimeter and do indicate it is of Prussian origin.

While Pickelhaubes aren’t my main area of research, I believe it to be a tin plate ersatz Pickelhaube. The one piece shell would also point to this and I would suggest manufacture from 1915 onwards when leather was in short supply and even toy shops re-tooled to make various items of equipment for the war effort, and with the first of the steel helmets was already being planned, these would now be relatively scarce. Below are a couple of similar examples for comparison.

Hopefully, some of our more experienced Pickelhaube collectors will be along to provide further information or clarification.

Andy

[Kohima]

I would respectfully say that the remaining cockade is the national Reichskockarde (black, white, red), rather than the black and white Prussian state insigne, and that there is no clue as to its state of origin from this detail.
I have tried to determine a ‘ghost’ of the wappenschild, but cannot make anything positive from it (though, in this respect, the few points of wear do tend to support the Prussian style adler - variants of which were worn by some other states).
Personally, I like the matt black overpaint, which could well be period.

[tony75]

Hello
Thank you all for the information and your time.
Thanks Andy for the pictures very helpful
Tony

[AndyM35]

I would respectfully say that the remaining cockade is the national Reichskockarde (black, white, red), rather than the black and white Prussian state insigne, and that there is no clue as to its state of origin from this detail.
I have tried to determine a ‘ghost’ of the wappenschild, but cannot make anything positive from it (though, in this respect, the few points of wear do tend to support the Prussian style adler - variants of which were worn by some other states).
Personally, I like the matt black overpaint, which could well be period.

I agree Rob. I actually meant to write Reichs Kokade as I had posted in reply #4
I looked for the shadow of a Wappen and could not see any witness marks which is another reason that I’m uneasy with the paint being original, though certainly old. What is your opinion in regards to the rectangular holes which would appear to be for mounting a Wappen?