An interesting 1937 dated FB Radom Vis Pistol

[justin1939]

Hello,

I thought that all the Polish militaria collectors would be extremely interested to see such an early dated Vis pistol, it is a shame it has such a lot of damage and wear to the bluing (which I think is 100% original prewar Polish) and some heavy pitting, especially over the Eagle as that is one of the most important markings if not the most important.

I wonder why the the markings can be sometimes worn away (Eagle and writing), is it always a sign of rebluing or blackening which have caused damage "burred" (partially burned away the impressed Eagle and writing and sharp outlines) or sometimes just where the owners have held the slide over the Eagle to "cock' it after reloading a new magazine which has worn the bluing and markings over time through the acidity in the owners hands through sweat to flatten the markings to flat smooth metal.

The ones produced in September 1939, to those still needing assembly in the factory when the Germans occupied Radom, were they usually of slightly less quality in the stamping of the markings due to the rush in production and maybe stamped hurriedly as to have only shallow markings and unevenly sometimes to have only partial and incomplete letters, please and Eagles ?

If this ever did happen, would it most likely only be on the last produced (last ditch) prewar Vis pistols, not the earlier produced ones which would have been produced in peacetime (when the years were relatively peaceful from 1936-1939, apart from being needed in preparation for Zaolzie in 1938) when the factory could take their full time, please ?

I am asking this as most of the markings on the Vis pistols which I have seen owned by the collectors are of the best quality, but I have seen some with considerable incompleteness to the markings that have either worn to flat metal or maybe were stamped shallowly and unevenly to cause a less detailed and distinct impression in the steel which makes incomplete letters and Eagles because the markings are currently in their present state of not the best quality, which puzzles me.

Here is a good example of this on a 1939 dated Vis pistol, which I once owned and got a refund for a while back.

Here is the link on the forum -

1939 dated Wz.35 Polish Vis Pistol, in firing condition, in storage, for Sale or Trade

Also I would be interested to know if they usually always or sometimes had the markings outlined in white paint in the prewar years, or if it was only done by the Germans after they captured some, here is a good example of this in this collectors prewar Vis pistol rig, mostly complete with original prewar holster with well preserved ink markings of the producers company, spare magazines (inspectors markings outlined, which is the first letter of the Polish army inspecting officer's surname with a number if there were more than one with the same letter, I think) one loaded in the pistol and two spares in the holster's internal magazine pouch, in the last photograph.

I have a prewar Polish cleaning / stripping rod with Inspectors markings, four prewar Polish magazines with Inspectors markings and one empty, but complete prewar Polish Vis bullet, so far.

I look forward to collecting an original prewar dated Vis pistol and holster with well preserved ink markings, hopefully also a original prewar Polish lanyard, if I am lucky enough, in between I will get a museum and film quality copy lanyard.

I would be extremely interested to hear the Polish militaria collectors theories or facts related to this, please ?

Here are the photos.

Thank you very much in advance for your interesting and informative replies.

Justin

justin1939

[António Fragoeiro]

These are beautiful pistols and very well made.
I have a relic one.
Cheers
Nuno

[harryamb2]

nice.

[A.J. Zawadzki]

. . . I wonder why the markings can be sometimes worn away (Eagle and writing), is it always a sign of rebluing or blackening which have caused damage . . .

I have seen cases where prior to re-bluing the pistol has been resurfaced which has damaged / weakened the stampings. In the case of this pistol it’s quite clearly a case of exposure to moisture that has corroded the slide.

. . . The ones produced in September 1939, to those still needing assembly in the factory when the Germans occupied Radom, were they usually of slightly less quality in the stamping of the markings due to the rush in production and maybe stamped hurriedly as to have only shallow markings and unevenly sometimes to have only partial and incomplete letters, please and Eagles ?

Not that I’ve noticed with the late production Vis pistols. Although stamping quality in general varied throughout the production run. One need look no further than Radom produced bayonets. Some have deeply impressed stampings whereas others do not. As far as the very late Vis pistols, some were missing inspection stamps. My 1939 is such an example.

If this did happen, would it only be on the last produced (last ditch) prewar Vis pistols, not the earlier produced ones which would have been produced in peacetime

The late “mismatch” Vis pistols were hurriedly assembled from available parts in order to get as many functioning pistols into the hands of the Polish army. There is some misinformation about who assembled these pistols these late mismatch pistols, Poles prior to the Germans overrunning the factory, or the work of the Germans. As with many aspects of Vis history the information is clouded and prone to error.

To set the record straight, both the Poles and Germans assembled pistols from available parts. But it is now known that German production at the Radom factory did not start for about a year after the occupation. And in keeping with Teutonic efficiency, all the early occupation pistols using remaining stock of pre-war parts underwent an inspection process resulting in German acceptance stamps. Polish made late “mismatch” pistols can be identified by the absence of German markings.

Also I would be interested to know if they usually always or sometimes had the markings outlined in white paint in the prewar years, or if it was only done by the Germans after they captured some

This has nothing to do with the original production or German repossession. Quite simply, some collectors do this to enhance the visibility of the markings.

Regards,
Tony