Odd WWI Polish Lancer Badge with design papers

[3mk]

Tony your a moderater now cograts!

[A.J. Zawadzki]

Hello aw,

Thanks for the pics. The Wielecki Sieradzki reference does indicate the measurements as 46 x 46mm. although this may just be a simple error. I have found that the dimensional details provided in the few books devoted to the topic are not always the most accurate. It could also be a case of the measurements being taken from a different set of reference points.

I will check my other references for information on these (including the Buszek products) and will also verify the actual measurements of the pre-war Knedler badge and get back to you. I know a collector who owns one, and if memory serves it may even be the enameled one pictured in my previous post.

My collection contains an ‘exile’ made version of the badge by Spink & Son (like the one posted by Gary) and will check those measurements as well. They should be very close to the pre-war badge as it was general practice in cases where pre-war badges were ‘re-used’ by the Polish Armed Forces in the West to replicate all aspects of the pre-war badge.

Cheers,
Tony

[A.J. Zawadzki]

Tony your a moderater now cograts!

Many thanks Emil. It’s great to finally have an English language forum dedicated to Polish military history and collecting. I look forward to seeing this site become a central hub of activity for collectors in our hobby from around the globe. Please encourage your friends in the hobby to check us out and contribute.

Best regards,
Tony

[3mk]

Indeed i will.Imagine one day a WHOLE forum deticated to Polish militaria uniforms etc!

[A.J. Zawadzki]

Hi again,

First off I have a reply from the owner of the enameled Knedler badge posted previously:

>>> measurements are hard ..as it’s difficult to take a point of reference..
but lets say from point of cross to point across in a straight line is 4.6/7 cm <<<

Pictured below is my Spink & Son exile version. Just a shade over 45mm across.

It’s strange that your badge deviates from the known size of the Knedler versions by about 3 mm. Please don’t take offense, but the ruler you are using doesn’t appear to be of the highest quality. You may want to check its accuracy against another ruler / measuring tape.

Do you by any chance know what the dimensions of the badge made by Władysław Buszek?

Unfortunately not. But I will try to find this out. Hang in there as it may take a while as this regiment’s badge is not too common, especially the Buszek version. But my three most reliable references (Wielecki/Sieradzki; Sawicki; and Filipow) all state 46 x 46mm as the standard width for the pre-war badge.

Posted below are the versions of the badge pictured in the Sawicki references – Volumes 1 and 2. A version made by Warsaw basedmaker Stanisław Reising is pictured in the latter. Again, the only size noted is 46 x 46mm, which seems to apply to all of the versions pictured in these books.

Regards,
Tony

[A.J. Zawadzki]

Indeed i will.Imagine one day a WHOLE forum deticated to Polish militaria uniforms etc!

Well, for the time being this is the next best thing. So let's all get the word out!

Cheers,
Tony

[awmartin]

Hi Tony,

That is a very nice Spink badge that you have, it is in excellent condition.

Thank you very much for taking the time to scan and post those pictures, I imagine that it took you some time to do so. I would have responded to your post sooner, but I was out of town and was not able to reply.

In regard to my measurements, I have compared my fancy ruler to another, and it is 100% accurate. Here is a picture, just so you don't think that I am crazy.



The badge that I found very closely resembles the construction of the badge made by Stanisław Reising, with it being constructed of two parts, connected by two pins, although there are some differences.

1. The size of the badge 49mmx 48.5/49 mm (horizontal x vertical).

2. The different shape of the arms of the cross, that can be best seen when the badge is flipped over. This is is probably the reason as to why it is a different size than what is in the books. Here is a comparison:


3. If this badge was made by Stanisław Reising, then it should have his nut, and not Knedler's.

4. The color of metal on the badge pictured in the book is slightly different than mine because it has no signs of having the brownish color, especially in the center of the shield.

Unfortunately there are more questions that come up with this badge after every post, but I and hopefully others are definitely learning something with each passing post.

I thank you once again for your help in identifying this badge.

[awmartin]

I wasn't fast enough to add a picture to my previous post.

Here is a picture comparing the two in regards to their colors.

[awmartin]

Please disregard point #2. I realized that the badges were not orientated similarly. The arms of the crosses on both badges are similar.

[A.J. Zawadzki]

Hello again aw,

Apologies for my slow return to this thread. I’ve been squeezed for time lately. And thanks for posting your additional questions.

1. The size of the badge 49mmx 48.5/49 mm (horizontal x vertical).

The larger size of your badge is a real stumbling block. Based on the pictures it appears genuine in every respect, although I would need to examine it in person to offer a more conclusive assessment. There is always the possibility that it is a legitimate variant, or, dare I say, a copy.

3. If this badge was made by Stanisław Reising, then it should have his nut, and not Knedler's.

That is correct, although mixing and matching of fastening nuts is not unusual for a badge that is 70+ years old. Many of them used the same post diameter and thread pitch.

4. The color of metal on the badge pictured in the book is slightly different than mine because it has no signs of having the brownish color, especially in the center of the shield.

I see what you’re saying. But I would caution against putting too much emphasis on pictures in books. As you know, lighting, ink, printing quality and other variables are all at play.

I’m afraid there is not much more I can add. Hopefully we can get someone else to comment.

Regards,
Tony