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Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

Article about: by stoggie I don't know what the K represents, but I do recall one for sale that also had that marking, and it was said to be from the Krakow armoury. For all I know it could be a inspector

  1. #181
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    Here's a recent acquisition, and a type I've been trying to find for awhile. This is a French Model 1916 Berthier rifle that was acquired by Poland sometime after 1918 (but probably no later than the mid-1920's) and marked accordingly. These are a niche within a niche, as they are foreign built, but not captured, and then used by Poland in the interbellum period.

    The history of these is very vague, but it is believed that some French rifles and carbines were brought to Poland by members of General Haller's so called 'Blue Army' at the conclusion of WWI. While some of the 'Blue Army's' rifles remained in service, it's far more likely that the majority of French long arms used by Poland were acquired through simple post-war sale in the early 1920's. These stand out in contrast to other 'usual' French long arms by not having any of the interbellum period updates that were done in France, such as updated sights, some barrel dates later than 1918 and the chamber modifications needed to accommodate the updated 'N' type cartridge introduced in 1932, along with the 'N' stamp indicating this on the top of the receiver and barrel.

    In contrast, the Polish-acquired French arms lacked all of those attributes. Another indication is frequently mismatched parts, or the deliberate obliteration of original serial numbers on parts. Polish inspection markings were stamped on the receiver and barrel (typically a 'Z' in a triangle) and the Polish eagle on the top of the barrel and receiver. The rifle I acquired displays these indications in the provided photos. Note how a new serial number was stamped into the receiver, presumably by the Poles, as it is struck over the French inspector's initials. A different stock was recycled and used, with the original French serial number still visible on the left side of the butt stock, but with Polish numbers stamped in on the right side.

    This particular example was imported to the USA in the early 1950's (per the original owner from whom I purchased it). Europe was being scoured at the time by Sam Cummings' InterArms Corporation, and many different types of arms were recovered and imported. It would seem that the most likely path this followed was to have been captured during or after the German invasion in 1939, cycled through German inventory, and then captured/retrieved/recovered from somewhere in (probably) western Europe. Poland had tens of thousands of French long arms in inventory as of 1938, around half of which would have been seized by Germany, with the USSR getting the rest. See below for examples of period German photos showing French arms in capture piles in September and October of 1939.

    Best,
    Pat
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic   Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic  

    Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic   Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic  

    Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic   Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic  

    Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic   Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic  


  2. #182
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    Additional photos of rifle, and capture pile photos.
    Pat
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic   Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic  

    Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic   Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic  

    Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic  

  3. #183
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    On the subject of foreign made, Polish used rifles, here's the Berthier with my wz.91/98/26, built from captured Russian parts.

    Best,
    Pat
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic  

  4. #184

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    Question a Polish WZ29 1939 with crest and I was advised all matching. Light pitting Nazi markings x3 on stock, one has an H under the Nazi eagle. It has 660 above the Polish Eagle FB Radom. The serial number is 8514 I do not know if it has a cleaning rod.

    I have no pictures yet as soon as I do I will add them. Any chance of a ball park value, I know this is super hard with as little info as I have put on here? What is the 660 above the Polish eagle?

    Sorry I bid on this then won and I have no clue, which is the ultimate sign of stupidity!!! My limited knowledge is on Japanese.

    Anyway any info would be greatly appreciated, I know I took a super uneducated leap and will have to live with it.
    Regards,

    MarkPistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd RepublicPistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd RepublicPistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic
    Last edited by smokediver216; 10-07-2018 at 02:49 PM. Reason: add photos

  5. #185
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    Technically it's a K98k rifle built from a captured Polish receiver, and this is a known and desirable variation. Your best source of information on these will be The K98k Forum.

  6. #186
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    1924 PFK Warszawa. It started its life as a long rifle, then it was rearsenalled and shortened in Warsaw armory in 1934. Some later German modifications like blued bolt, replaced follower and few parts numbered. I believe that numbers on trigger guard, butt plate, bolt handle and stock were applied by Poles during 1934 conversion. Interesting thing is that it was configured to wz29 trim, but had K98 bands installed. Rare variation, total of 12,400 rifles were produced by PFK Warszawa in 1924.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic   Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic  

    Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic   Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic  

    Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic   Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic  

    Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic   Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic  

    Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic   Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic  

    Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic   Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic  

    Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic   Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic  


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