Auction items .. Good, Bad or Indifferent ?

[conrado]

Hi Konrad,

This is a genuine government issue cross, called the Type 2 Knedler. And in very good condition.

Unfortunately the majority of the records of those awarded the Cross of Valour are missing, so unless you have the award document that accompanied this cross the name of the original recipient will remain unknown.

Regards,
Tony

Thank you, Tony, for your response.

What does it mean "Type 2"? In what period this type of cross was granted?
And why some of the crosses are numbered and some are not?

Regards,
Konrad

[andrzejku98]

Hello Konrad,

Many thanks for your post, the 1st Type of KW was produced by the Firm Albin Różycki, produced without the date 1920 and numbered from1-3000.

The production was then taken on by the firm of Jan Knedler which produced a cross with the date 1920 and numbered from 3001-42500, the firm of Jan Knedler then produced a smaller type of cross numbered from 42501-59999.

Your cross is the 2nd type produced by the firm of Jan Knedler Konrad.

I hope that the above information answers your question Konrad

Best wishes

Andrzej

p.s.





KW produced by the firm of Albin Różycki obverse and reverse





KW produced by the firm of Jan Knedler obverse and reverse of the 1st type cross.





KW produced by the firm of Jan Knedler obverse and reverse of the 2nd type cross

[A.J. Zawadzki]

. . . The production was then taken on by the firm of Jan Knedler which produced a cross with the date 1920 and numbered from 3001-42500, the firm of Jan Knedler then produced a smaller type of cross numbered from 42501-59999.

Hi Andrzej, sorry, one small correction. Although it is widely thought that the Type 1 large pattern Knedler was produced up to serial number 42500, the large pattern cross from my collection pictured below proves this is untrue. It remains unknown at exactly which number the production of the smaller pattern cross started.

Regards,
Tony

[andrzejku98]

Hello Tony,

I got the information from Krogulec's Book, which would show that some times you can be wrong even if you write a book.

Best wishes

Andrzej

[conrado]

Thank you very much Gentlemen. I was hoping that you both will answer my question.

But what about the dates of production of that crosses? And which type of cross (which numbers) was granded to the soldiers of WW2?

Regards,
Konrad

[A.J. Zawadzki]

I got the information from Krogulec's Book, which would show that some times you can be wrong even if you write a book.

Yes, the pitfall of writing on the topic of Polish militaria. Little bits of new information continue to surface that change what was previously understood. It does keep things interesting though. And this should not at all discredit the efforts of those such as Mr. Krogulec. All collectors of this decoration owe him a debt of gratitude.

Cheers,
Tony

[A.J. Zawadzki]

. . . But what about the dates of production of that crosses? And which type of cross (which numbers) was granded to the soldiers of WW2?

Hi Konrad,

The production of Polish Second Republic government issue crosses spanned three years, 1920-22.

As far as the crosses awarded after 1939 by the Polish Government in Exile, the fragmented nature of the armed forces in the west resulted the use of crosses from various producers. In 1939/40 while in France crosses made by Arthus Bertrand and Marius Delande were supposedly used, although I have yet to see formal award documentation from this period.

After the fall of France in the spring of 1940 the relocated Poles in the UK hired Spink & Son to produce the official crosses. However, evidence suggests that two other crosses were also formally issued, with neither maker being positively established. Recent - but as of yet unsubstantiated information - names Grupa Techniczna as one of the makers.

The Poles interned in Switzerland ordered 600 – 700 crosses from Huguenin Frères of Le Locle. These crosses have the date marked on the obverse changed from 1920 to 1940.

The Poles serving in the Middle East / Mediterranean theater placed orders with two producers, only one of which has been positively identified: Samuel Kretschmer of Jerusalem.

All of these exile-issue crosses are pictured and discussed in this thread:
Cross of Valour (Krzyz Walecznych) - Exile Types

Regards,
Tony

[conrado]

Many thanks for your post, Tony.

Please correct me if I misunderstood.

So the crosses produced by Albin Różycki company (no. 1-3000) and Jan Knedler company (Type 1 no. 3001-42500, Type 2 no. 42501-59999; except the case described by you, Tony) were produced and granted before the WW2.

Soldiers of WW2 were granted the crosses made by Spink & Son company and Samuel Kretschmer of Jerusalem company.

Regards,
Konrad

[A.J. Zawadzki]

Hi Konrad, yes, serial numbered crosses up to 59999 / 60000 (the last serial number is unknown) were issued only during the Polish 2nd Republic before WW2. And for combat during WW2 the crosses of various producers, not just Spink and Kretschmer, were officially issued as per my comments in post #1307.

Regards,
Tony

[conrado]

Thank you - Tony - once again for your reply.

And one more request to identify this cross below. Is it genuine?
I have a suspicion that it is fake, because of its the redesigned guard with upturned quillons on the sword.

Regards,
Konrad