Hello Konrad,
Many thanks for your post, the photograph was taken outside Buckingham Palace, the Distinguished Flying Cross could be awarded posthumously a good example is of the D.F.C. awarded to Marian Bełc, his D.F.C. was pinned to the coat of his Son.
Who the Pilot or other Aircrew awarded this particular cross we may never know.
Best wishes
Andrzej
Andrzej,
A point of refinement to your excellent thread. The only two British awards that could be made posthumously were the Victoria Cross or a ‘Mention in Despatches’, a posthumous award is recommended after death or the recommended person dies in service before the award is officially authorized. In fact many recommendations for gallantry awards were cancelled or downgraded to an Mid (rarely upgraded to a VC) if the person recommended died in service before the official review and award are made final.
Many award ceremonies at Buckingham Palace, like in your picture were made to family or next of kin when the awards were made official and announced in the London Gazzette - individual alive, but the recipient dies before the award is made - this not technically what is defined as a ‘posthumous award’. Does that make senses?
The girl in the picture could simply be holding the recipients award while he does something else too.
I've pondered long over the same photos.
What I take from it is that she appears somewhat downcast and is not thrilled and delighted to be holding the DFC case, not even a hint of a smile.
This makes me think that the person awarded could not be present and she holds it on behalf of a deceased aircrew member. But that person may not even be Polish, she could be the wife/fiancee of any Allied aircrew.
Andrzej, can I ask what makes you think this is Buckingham Palace?
Others have suggested the name Maria BOTNIK who came to England only in 1947 at the age of 21. And, having seen her photo, I'm certain it is not her.
Regards,
Ted
Andrzej,
another question for the undoubted expert if I may.
What might be the typical time that could elapse between the decision to give an award and the actual ceremony to pin the award? Days, weeks, months, years even?
Regards,
Ted
Hello asterperious,
Many thanks for your post, no doubt you are aware that the British Awards to the Poles were not announced in the London Gazette for fears of reprisals against the families of individuals, awards for Poles were announced in the London Gazette after the end of the war in Europe.
It would also bring into dispute the award of the DFC to Kpt. pil. Ludwik Paszkiewicz who was awarded the DFC but was killed before he could receive it, the other 4 pilots (Urbanowicz, Zumbach, Ferić and Henneberg) received the DFC from AM Sholto-Douglas on the 15th December 1940 at RAF Leconfield.
I am also aware that the Distinguished Flying Cross was not awarded Posthumously until 1979, but it does beg the question then why did Paszkiewicz and Bełc who died on the 27th August 1942 and the award ceremony of 21st September 1942 when the Distinguished Flying Cross was pinned the the coat of his son Marian Bełc.
We may never know why they where awarded the DFC after their deaths, hopefully a new book on the subject that was due to be published this year might shed some light on the subject.
The only thing that I can think of is that the Request went through the channels and was approved by King George VI, it is the King who had the last word on the matters shown below :
Best wishes
Andrzej
I did find this website which, although seemingly aimed at Royal Canadian Air Force issues, contains much information that I was not aware of.
Of Award Types, Criterias and Investitures – RAFCommands
Regards,
Ted
Hello Ted,
Many thanks for your post and your question of what makes me think the photograph was taken outside Buckingham Palace, the plaques on the pillars of the gates as shown in the present day photograph :
That is my opinion Ted.
Best wishes
Andrzej
Hello Ted,
Many thanks for your post, the Length of time for a Recommendation being submitted through the appropriate channels to the individual being awarded a decoration, it could be awarded as an "Immediate" award if the relevant C-in-C thought it appropriate or it could take a few months or even a few years depending on the circumstances.
I know that the above does not give you a definitive answer.
Best wishes
Andrzej
Hello,
Thank you for the comprehensive discussion.
The question is in which way the medal was awarded posthumously to the person who received it on someone else's behalf. Whether it was pinned to the chest or handed with the box to the person's hands... Andrzej wrote that in the case of Marian Bełc, his D.F.C. was pinned to the coat of his Son. But has it always been this way?
I don't think that this particular Pole girl was awarded the DFC. It could be that she is holding probably the empty case of some pilot who was her boyfriend and he just gave her to hold it or something like this...
We will probably never find out how it really was.
Regards
Konrad
By the power of the internet.
Maria Barr married British pilot Philipp Barr in 1940, who was killed in a combat flight two years later. For his merits, King George VI decorated the widow with air decoration D. F. C.
Later Maria Barr remarried, this time to a Polish aviator.
The photo comes from the New York-based newspaper "The Polish Review" Vol. Ill, No. 3 of September 13, 1943.
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