Help identifying medal ribbons

[andyl]

Hello,

This is a really long shot but is anyone able to add anything regarding the medal ribbons on this photo of my late father-in-law.



He was born 1914 and his British campaign star card dated 3.12.1945 has him as a Pte, 8th Rifle Battalion, 1st Polish Armoured Division, entitled to the 1939/45 Star and France & Germany Star.

His Alien Order, Certificate of Registration says 'from 12.9.44 was Pte in Rifle Batt. Polish Army'

I think the bottom row starts with the Cross of Valour? Then, maybe?, the 1939 to 1945 Star, the France & Germany Star and the War Medal 1939 to 1945.

No Defence Medal, unless it's on the top row?

(Or is it more likely that this photo is before, or without, the British awards?)

When did they get to know about their awards, and so start wearing the ribbons. Would this have been the December 1945 date, in his case?

Thanks

[andrzejku98]

Hello andyl,

May I be the first to welcome you to the forum and thank you for posting the photograph of your late Father in Law.

You are correct in stating that the 2nd Row Medal Ribbons are as follows :

1) Krzyż Walecznych (Cross of Valour 1939-1945)

2) British 1939-1945 Star

3) British France and Germany Star

4) British War Medal 1939-1945.

In the photograph there seems to be a ribbon above the row of ribbons if this so it could only be one of two ribbons

1) Wound Ribbon each silver star denoted a wound

2) Order Virtuti Militari Silver Cross.

If you wish Andy send me a private email through the Forum with your late Father in Laws Name and I will confirm the awards.

Your late Father in Law may have also received the Polish Medal Wojsko (Army Medal).

Best wishes and Welcome once again

Andrzej

[andyl]

Thank you Andrzej for your prompt and informative response. I will message you.

Andrew

[andyl]

Our quest continues.

We now have his army service record from Northholt and have proudly claimed and received his British medals.

We now plan to return to PISM. We had a most enjoyable and interesting visit to the museum earlier in the year but now we have papers, with dates, we plan to book a slot in the reading room. But what do we ask for? Will there be anyone there to help?

Here’s a couple of snippets relevant to the medal questions I raised.



I think the 5.11.44 entry says: ranny w lewe ramię odszedł do szpit - wounded in the left arm and went to hospital? I wonder if this may have resulted in the Wound Ribbon that is possibly in the battledress photograph.

There’s an entry for his Krzyz Walecznych too. I wonder, though, the significance of the 3.7.45 date. A presentation date maybe, or the date it was recorded in his service record?



I read with interest in the Krzyz Walecznych thread of the many different types of this medal that were issued. Is it known what specific type would have been issued to 1st Armoured Division, 8th Rifle Battalion soldiers at this time (or is that a question for that thread)?

Thanks and best wishes,
andyl

[andrzejku98]

Hello Andy,

Many thanks for your post, when you get up to the 2nd Floor Reading Room, the Archivist Office is on the left and ask for Dr. Andrzej Suchcitz, to help you search the records of the 8th Rifle Battalion. If Andrzej is busy then ask Jadwiga Kowalska.

Please let us know how you get on.

Best wishes

Andrzej

[conrado]

Hello Gentlemen,

I would like to ask you for identify the ribbons bar. This one belonged to the Lieutenant served in the Centrum Wyszkolenia Pancernego i Technicznego in England during the WW2.



Above the ribbons is the Odznaka Pamiątkowa Znak Pancerny and on the pocket is the Odznaka Pamiątkowa Centrum Wyszkolenia Pancernego i Technicznego.

I was able to identify the following ribbons:

1. Medal Wojska
2. ?
3. Defence Medal
4. War Medal 1939-1945
5. ?
6. ?
7. French Medal Pamiątkowy Wojny 1939–1945 (Médaille Commémorative Française de la Guerre 1939-1945)

Regards
Konrad

[ValeriiGajewski]

Hello there Konrad!

IMO looks like the absent awards can be follows:

2. Silver Cross for voluntary military service (Croix des services militaires volontaires):
Medal for voluntary military service - Wikipedia



5. Military Medal (The Médaille militaire):
Medaille militaire - Wikipedia



6. Volunteer combatant's cross 1914–1918 (Croix du Combattant Volontaire 1914–1918):
Volunteer combatant's cross 1914–1918 - Wikipedia



Regards, Valerii

[conrado]

Thank you Valerii for your reply.

I have some doubt regarding the following awards:

2. The award for service in the military reserves and established only on 13th March 1975. This photo is from a much earlier period.

5. As an award for valour it is the 2nd highest award ranking immediately after the Légion d'honneur. So it should be before the 2. award on the ribbons bar.

6. This is a French decoration that recognizes those who volunteered to serve on the front in a combat unit during World War I (1914-1918). Moreover the patterns of stripes on these two ribbons are different from each other.

Hopefully another forum member will be able to comment on this.

Regards
Konrad

[ValeriiGajewski]

Hello there Konrad!

I continued my research & found some interesting things, which
can be useful.

Some days ago I went through the Russian forum, which interesting
in a decoding of an old photographs of Russian Empire & Soviet soldiers.
One of the users, who knows the chemical processes with the old photograph and have a huge experience in decoding of such images posted there interesting material about the properties of the negatives & photographic materials & also create kind of correspondence table:

when photographing, the light reflected by red, yellow and orange objects practically did not affect the photographic material - on the negative, these places turned out to be light, but on the photo print - dark. Conversely, colors affecting the photographic material (blue and green) were dark on the negative, and light on the print. Thus, in terms of color rendering, the photographic print turned out to be rather far from the original.



According to this materials I looked through your image one more time.

If you try to combine(check) for ex. the awards № 3,4, & 7 with the correspondence table you can get roughly similar to this results:



Of course the image tone can be different(aging, mechanical damage & etc.), but as you can see it is very similar:

So IMO the absent awards can be follows:

2. Silver Cross for voluntary military service (Croix des services militaires volontaires) or The Ordre du Mérite militaire (Bronze Order of Military Merit).
If you check a little bit closer to the previous article from Wikipedia Croix des services militaires volontaires not a medal, it was established on 13th March 1934 in order to reward their volunteerism during training periods of WW1.
Unfortunately I don't know the year of born of your soldier. If he take part only in WW2 it can be the Bronze Ordre du Mérite militaire which replaced the Croix des services militaires volontaires on 22 March 1957. Description of this awards and the color patterns a very similar to the military service of your soldier.

Ordre du Merite militaire (France) - Wikipedia



6. Think you are right about the Volunteer combatant's cross 1914–1918. After closer look most of all
it can be The Medal of a liberated France ("Médaille de la France libérée")

Medal of a liberated France - Wikipedia



If you look closely, you can see that the colored patterns on the bar do not have clear boundaries like others, and in fact there are 7 of them.



Also the colored patterns № 1,2,6 & 7 have a red & yellow colors, which should be much darker than on this photo, but
think that the material of this ribbon after aging or mechanical damage could take on a lighter colors:



Regards, Valerii

[ValeriiGajewski]

What about №5 medal, may be it can be The Croix du combattant volontaire for Missions extérieures:









Croix du combattant volontaire — Wikipedia

If you look closely, you can find 5 stripes on the bar:



At the end of the fifth stripe I can see the another color small space(marked by "?").

Regards, Valerii