SA Buckles (Brass and Nickel) Upright Swastika

[Blackpowder44]

My all brass one is on page 4. If you would like to transfer it onto here please do. John.

[David North]

My apologies for the late response to this thread and my further apologies that for the immediate moment, I do not have the time to post more SA buckles. The threads have not been forgotten.

Just a few subjective, personal and non substantiated comments about the SA buckle, to include the "upright" swastika type.

It is very interesting to note that for such a commonly encountered, well known and relatively low value buckle, the SA remains something of an enigma. In fact the SA buckle has for many years been regarded as falling within the lower end of the collecting desirability spectrum and whilst all the while, harbouring many potentially interesting and yet to be discovered secrets.

When I say SA buckle, I am of course referring to the box type and which displays either a separately affixed or integral roundel.

In my opinion, no one knows when the first SA buckle was worn or was ceased to be worn. It is obvious though to most collectors and devotees of the RZM that on occasions, the SA buckle displays a RZM related mark or logo and as such, this presence provides a tantalisingly glimpse of a small time frame for a a later period of manufacture and wear.

Consider that in the 1920's, many German companies of differing sizes were struggling to survive and to include those concerns manufacturing belt buckles etc. This turbulent decade provided a new opportunity for these companies who were quite happy to manufacture side by side, right wing and left wing buckles. In addition, there were companies who manufactured the buckle complete and those, working as a "cottage industry". The latter would die stamp or buy in the various design roundels and on numerous occasions, cannibalise and convert a once Imperial buckle. We see on many occasions, an SA buckle which has the "shadow" of a former roundel present and of course, messy soldering.

The SA buckle was heavily commercially driven. In my opinion, there is no other reason for the hundreds of different roundel designs and which were there, simply to attract the SA member.

To my knowledge, there is no documented evidence to prove that the nickle or chrome on brass SA buckle was the prerogative of the NSKK or any other organisation. Instead, it was all again commercially motivated. If an SA member had a uniform with brass buttons etc., then it would be natural to choose a brass buckle. Conversely, if an SA member wore a uniform with nickle silver buttons etc., then a white metal buckle would be the obvious and in simpatico choice.

In my opinion, there is no significance whatsoever as to the style of swastika and the "mobile", "sun-wheel" and "upright" were all worn simultaneously. Again and again, the design of the eagle and the swastika being there as a commercial feature to persuade the SA member to buy.

I think that the "upright" swastika SA was introduced at a later rather than earlier period and I find it most puzzling why we never see very early period SA buckles with such a swastika. In addition, all the "upright" swastika SA buckles that I have ever seen appear to have exactly the same style of eagle and swastika, being produced by the same manufacturer!

The "upright" swastika SA buckle is well documented, although I do not think that the all brass version is as rare as some persons think.

The final and potentially contentious issue is that the "upright" swastika SA buckle was manufactured exclusively by Overhoff und Cie for a very short period, although passed on for sale to other manufacturers and distributors, to include Assmann. The Overhoff production was however abruptly halted when they became involved in the immensely lucrative manufacturing of another buckle with a possibly conflicting "upright" swastika - the SS.

Regards,

David

[Kurt D]

Further to David's point (just one of many excellent arguments of his about the SA buckle) that it is very unlikely there was a chronology to the type of swastika, here is a drawing from the "Mitteilungsblatt der RZM", the RZM's official periodic organ, of 1934, showing "the" SA buckle, described as defunct at that date.

Best regards,
Karl

[lach470]

Very cool to see Karl! I'd love to get my hands on that periodic! Cool!

Rob

[David North]

Karl

Thankyou for the most interesting response and for posting the 1934 illustration of the then, "obsolete" SA buckle. Perhaps worthy of note is that the RZM chose to illustrate their rendition of the upright swastika SA. Why ? The artist made a reasonably good job, although the upper wing detail is horribly wrong.

Anyway, why do you think that we never see any "early" SA buckles displaying an upright swastika. Two of mine for goodness sake are RZM marked.

Here is a brace of potentially key questions.

Does anybody have any solid and indisputable evidence as to when (a) the SA buckle was first worn and (b), the SS buckle was first worn ? There may be a correlation here as to why we never see any early period SA buckles with an upright swastika.

Regards,

David

[koppel71]

2 meiner Sammlung

[NortonI]

Vielen Dank für das Bild Deiner wirklich beeindruckenden Sammlung, K71 ! Bis bald mal - Thomas
-
Thanks for showing you impressive collection, catch ya later T.

[David North]

Assmann (again) with an interesting, inner wall set of stampings.

Regards,

David

[bigmacglenn]

What a beautiful version...I really appreciate you sharing this one with us. I've never seen one marked in that area either. The different variations are really beginning to stoke my interest, and I'm considering changing my focus and collecting SA variant buckles until I have a representative collection. Thank you again brother! In my opinion, This is what it's all about and this forum is just such a blessing for seasoned collectors and most certainly for beginners.

[kirby]

A few more