C. Remscheid & Co. REMEVE
Hey all, wanted to share a hard to find piece I snapped up from an estate. My understanding is only 1,000 of these were made. It is Nrh marked. The scabbard is salty, but the dagger itself is quite fantastic! Excited to add this to my slowly growing SA collection. Sorry for the lackluster pics, they're from the seller. I'll post good ones when it arrives.
Nice catch, Ak,
Great blade with a beautiful trademark.
A little Renwax on the grip might help as it looks a bit dry.
Dave
Thanks Dave, I'll take a look at it closer in hand. I know people will lose their minds if I put anything on it haha.by Dave H
Ak, you are right about that.
I take my lead from museums and historic venues. If you visit Mount Vernon the wooden tables and chairs are beautiful and have had wax and preservatives applied. Same of the furniture in HMS Victory in Portsmouth in the UK. The swords are not rusty and the leather is not cracked and dry.
Hi Ak ...
The blade appears to be a screamer ...having perfect crossgraining.
Post more photos here when you get the the dagger in your hands.
The grip eagle appears to be lifting away from the grip or it could be the shadow of the sellers photo making it appear that way.
I like to see whats going on the the upper guard to rip fit as well.
The hanger is early first type used and nice to have that . If your able ....carefully undo the leather from the buckle and turn it around so that the hanger and not the snap clip is hanging from the carrying ring. ONLY IF you feel the leather is safe and not falling apart.
Remeve comes in at a middle rarity 7 out of 10 ...as of the sightings listed on the 2009 McSaar list. ( Early SA Rarity )
The idea that certain producers like this one made 1000 daggers is not rock solid proof. These numbers originally come from John Fishers reference ...which many have retained this info calling it Bible and used it as well on their own references and data bases.
There are about 220 SA producers and what is stated that cottage producers being in the 8 to 10 rarity range have been said to have made 1000 daggers each? That doesnt make any sense at all ..lets remember that there were 3 million SA men in 1931 ...so if half of the SA producers ..produced 1000 to 2000 daggers each ...it doesnt even cause a ripple in the water of being anywhere close to 3 million.
Example : Remeve 1 / 1000 according to Fishers that #1 is what has been observed in 1000 possible produced daggers and also due to the fact 80 some years later ...there are half of what was actually produced found post war and much of was lost or destroyed ..or even thrown in the trash by Vets families.
Eickhorn was a huge contract ...yet in Fishers for Example is 52 / 1000 .....52 daggers have been observed in batches of 1000 thats alot of daggers produced ...yet in 2002 ...Fisher stated that only 52,000 Standard SA daggers were produced ? ...Thats all ? ..then in 2012 ...the number was lowered to an estimated quantity made 29,000.
It was estimated in 2002 that Eickhorn produced 60,123 SA Rohm daggers
in 2012 its been estimated 32,000 were produced..thats half less !!
Wittmann stated 100,000 Rohm daggers were distributed ...these numbers are all over the place with no consistency.
My point is that do not go by something that has been posted saying this or that many were made ...as we really dont know exactly ..but a realistic closer number would be closer to 3 million which Hitler wanted to get this done within a few years.
The math on the theory of 1000 or 10,000 made does not add up X the amount of producers ...does not equal 3 million .....lets say 100 cottage producers produced 1000 daggers...thats 100,000 daggers. The other 100 + producers may have produced more but not in the effect by a scale that is misinforming the collectors here ..that a certain dagger is rare because it was said 1000 were made.
Mike McAlvanah ( McSaar Author ) has stated that that the 1 / 1000 is to be observed in modern day as a rare dagger because there are not many of them left compared to what was initially produced back during the early 1930s.
Mike McAlvanah has shown in his McSaar list that Remeve is NOT a rare dagger due to the years of collection and observation when these daggers had surfaced in the market place and also within collections.
His list was compiled in 2009...so much of what has been found common 12 years later...some of those daggers now should be 8 or 9 in rarity because they are in collections and not out in the market place for the time being.
John Fishers Reference is exhaustive in content and much of his research was gathered in Solingen which there is data that survived the war ...but alos much of it was lost as well.
Cottage producers did not have the large mechanizations of the larger firms like Eickhorn ..Ernst Pack being the top 2 and operated with smaller machines and less of them with family members and local hires ...so the production numbers would not be as great as Eickhorn compared to a rarity 10 producer.
I have seen lately within the last 2 years more 8s and 9s than 3 4 and 5s. Seems the common are moving towards the rare as the rare are becoming more Market place common.
Im not targeting you AK ..just putting it out there as I had before that 1000 or 2000 made does not necessarily mean thats how many were made as it is what has been observed post war recent.
Another example is Eppenstein & Sohne ... 7 / 1000 ...sounds common that 7 daggers have been observed in 1000 possibly produced, but thats Fishers numbers...but on the McSaar its a rare # 8
Collectors expect less due to rarity ..but is not the case as sometimes these rare producers will flood the market at some point in time.
Anyway I think you get my point Im making ..that any Early SA dagger found with the exception of the larger producers should be researched carefully and compared to other post war sightings.
I like your dagger and look forward to more photos.
Sorry for the long sermon
Best Regards Larry
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!- Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
Totally agree. I hope this dagger is in stable condition right now as I think it's unavoidable that anything added may darken the wood.
Larry, thanks for making this write up. I did notice that about the adler, that it's a bit raised. Good catch on the hangar, I wasn't even paying close attention to that ha. Personally I've never paid super close attention to the McSarr list and never even looked at it, rather relying on seasoned dagger collectors to share what they've seen surface over the years. Super rare or not, this is still a nice piece to haveHi Ak ...
The blade appears to be a screamer ...having perfect crossgraining.
Post more photos here when you get the the dagger in your hands.
The grip eagle appears to be lifting away from the grip or it could be the shadow of the sellers photo making it appear that way.
I like to see whats going on the the upper guard to rip fit as well.
The hanger is early first type used and nice to have that . If your able ....carefully undo the leather from the buckle and turn it around so that the hanger and not the snap clip is hanging from the carrying ring. ONLY IF you feel the leather is safe and not falling apart.
Remeve comes in at a middle rarity 7 out of 10 ...as of the sightings listed on the 2009 McSaar list. ( Early SA Rarity )
The idea that certain producers like this one made 1000 daggers is not rock solid proof. These numbers originally come from John Fishers reference ...which many have retained this info calling it Bible and used it as well on their own references and data bases.
There are about 220 SA producers and what is stated that cottage producers being in the 8 to 10 rarity range have been said to have made 1000 daggers each? That doesnt make any sense at all ..lets remember that there were 3 million SA men in 1931 ...so if half of the SA producers ..produced 1000 to 2000 daggers each ...it doesnt even cause a ripple in the water of being anywhere close to 3 million.
Example : Remeve 1 / 1000 according to Fishers that #1 is what has been observed in 1000 possible produced daggers and also due to the fact 80 some years later ...there are half of what was actually produced found post war and much of was lost or destroyed ..or even thrown in the trash by Vets families.
Eickhorn was a huge contract ...yet in Fishers for Example is 52 / 1000 .....52 daggers have been observed in batches of 1000 thats alot of daggers produced ...yet in 2002 ...Fisher stated that only 52,000 Standard SA daggers were produced ? ...Thats all ? ..then in 2012 ...the number was lowered to an estimated quantity made 29,000.
It was estimated in 2002 that Eickhorn produced 60,123 SA Rohm daggers
in 2012 its been estimated 32,000 were produced..thats half less !!
Wittmann stated 100,000 Rohm daggers were distributed ...these numbers are all over the place with no consistency.
My point is that do not go by something that has been posted saying this or that many were made ...as we really dont know exactly ..but a realistic closer number would be closer to 3 million which Hitler wanted to get this done within a few years.
The math on the theory of 1000 or 10,000 made does not add up X the amount of producers ...does not equal 3 million .....lets say 100 cottage producers produced 1000 daggers...thats 100,000 daggers. The other 100 + producers may have produced more but not in the effect by a scale that is misinforming the collectors here ..that a certain dagger is rare because it was said 1000 were made.
Mike McAlvanah ( McSaar Author ) has stated that that the 1 / 1000 is to be observed in modern day as a rare dagger because there are not many of them left compared to what was initially produced back during the early 1930s.
Mike McAlvanah has shown in his McSaar list that Remeve is NOT a rare dagger due to the years of collection and observation when these daggers had surfaced in the market place and also within collections.
His list was compiled in 2009...so much of what has been found common 12 years later...some of those daggers now should be 8 or 9 in rarity because they are in collections and not out in the market place for the time being.
John Fishers Reference is exhaustive in content and much of his research was gathered in Solingen which there is data that survived the war ...but alos much of it was lost as well.
Cottage producers did not have the large mechanizations of the larger firms like Eickhorn ..Ernst Pack being the top 2 and operated with smaller machines and less of them with family members and local hires ...so the production numbers would not be as great as Eickhorn compared to a rarity 10 producer.
I have seen lately within the last 2 years more 8s and 9s than 3 4 and 5s. Seems the common are moving towards the rare as the rare are becoming more Market place common.
Im not targeting you AK ..just putting it out there as I had before that 1000 or 2000 made does not necessarily mean thats how many were made as it is what has been observed post war recent.
Another example is Eppenstein & Sohne ... 7 / 1000 ...sounds common that 7 daggers have been observed in 1000 possibly produced, but thats Fishers numbers...but on the McSaar its a rare # 8
Collectors expect less due to rarity ..but is not the case as sometimes these rare producers will flood the market at some point in time.
Anyway I think you get my point Im making ..that any Early SA dagger found with the exception of the larger producers should be researched carefully and compared to other post war sightings.
I like your dagger and look forward to more photos.
Sorry for the long sermon
Best Regards Larry
Ak,
Dagger numbers:
The number of Rohm daggers ordered has been known for some time from period documents. Whether that is the number actually produced and distributed is not known.
I knew Fischer as he had MAX tables near TW at the old Monroeville facility. He told me that his "numbers produced" was a guess based on the numbers had seen at shows.
Mike Mcalvanah's MCSAAR was a statistically valid calculation based on his observations over a period of 25 years or so. He is a whiz at statistics besides being a surgeon. I know him well and we have discussed his list versus what you see today and there is a difference as Larry points out above.
Dave
having owned way over 100 SA daggers normally it only takes one look to spot an overcleaned grip and blade.
Original it is, but looking at the scabbard and after that at the grip i see a very dry looking grip, normally that kind of colour comes after heavy cleaning.
The blade looks to have near the guard a bit of staining, i need better pictures of the blade in a certain angle towards the sun to see if its grain that shines or the simi chrome polish gives it this shiny appearance.
cheers
Ger
It will be in my possession on Saturday, so I can post more then. I tend to err on the side of caution and leave things as I receive them. Dave up above did mention wax or a preservative.
Pleasantly surprised this showed up early. Here are some additional photos. Really nice dark motto, handle is much better in hand. Eagle is inset appropriately. Pommel nut was at one point turned. Some runner marks on the blade and small surface issues but overall great!
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