EP & S Ground Röhm SA-Dagger

[TheJackal83]

Added the first SA Dagger to my collection yesterday and it turned out to be a ground Röhm (technically a ”partial” Röhm I guess)!

It wasn’t sold as such, simply as a Pack SA Dagger, but the pictures of the reverse of the blade made me suspect it might actually be a Röhm, so I went for it allthough the anodized scabbard has seen better days.

After a wipe-down and cleaning of old grease, the last bit of the tail of the ”m” in Röhm revealed itself! Guessing that this blade was factory refinished and polished, since it’s quite a nice job and the factory grain is still visible in the light.

The patina of the cross- and pommel guards, along with the long neck eagle, match the scabbard fittings perfectly and I love the look of it!

A curiosity is of course the fact that the Gruppen-mark ”No” is on the obverse of the crossguard and closer inspection reveals that both the cross- & pommel guards are reversed (looking at them: turning them would make them sit flush with the wood grip). The nut doesn’t look to have been touched in a LONG time though, since the patina on it matches everything else perfectly as well and it’s rock solid. Did the factory put it back together that way when removing the Röhm-inscription? Did the SA-member take it apart and put it back together that way? Who knows!

All in all I’m very happy with my first SA-Dagger and I feel like I got quite a good deal when I bought it!

Oppinions and comments are much appreciated!

[Larry C]

Hi Jack this dagger was opened up at some point as seen by the plier marks on the tang nut.
The gruppe mark is correct for Ernst Pack..but the upper crossguard is Carl Eickhorn due to the deep accent grooves that are cut deep into the guard beneath.

The blade has been over buffed to the point that the logo lettering appears smeared...so yes this is a ground Rohm for sure and not a partial.This buffing was done post war.
The scabbard I can not detect if it was black or brown ..so we will leave it at that due to its condition.

The upper guard has a heavy nicotine patina to it..as the rest of the dagger does not and may have been cleaned long ago as I still see traces of nicotine on the fittings alos a little on the grip eagle.

I do agree that the dagger had not been opened in a long time...but it has been opened prior to the discoloration on the upper guard.

Regards Larry

[Dave H]

Larry, does that look like a Pack crossguard to you ?

Here is a Pack full Rohm I photographed many many years ago. Sorry for the quality.

Dave

[Dave H]

OOOoops. 2 pictures ! Maybe a BOGO event ?

[Larry C]

Great to see you posting Dave..I sent you an email that you did not reply to ....regardless I will post later a Ernst Pack SA dagger gruppe mark B .....AND ...the S within the horseshoe foundry mark ...that is not the A typical commonly seen with straight across looking Pack lower guards.

The OP doesnt want to disturb it ...and Im curious what the markings may be inside his lower guard. But as I stated there are mismatched guards.
Dont worry about the double posting ...I will remove one of the photos.

Hope you are doing well.

Best Regards Larry

[Larry C]

Here ya Go Dave I found the thread

Ernst Pack Early SA Dagger with different details

[TheJackal83]

Actually, since you rightfully pointed out that the upper crossguard was a Eickhorn, along with the plier marks (can't believe I missed that... ) - I figures I might as well open it up and turn the crossguards around the right way. In retrospect, I'm glad I did, since it turned out that there was pretty bad rust situation on the tang within the grip, that I managed to halt with some WD40! Luckily I also happened to have the PERFECT tool, to open the nut without harming it, in my toolbox. For real, if I didn't know better I'd say it was made for the purpose!

Now, I didn't take any pictures, but:

- The tang is marked A5
- The upper guard HE for Hause Eickhorn (but you knew this already )
- The lower guard I couldn't quite make out, but it looked like a letter within a small circle.

The dagger being what it is, I also cleaned of the Nicotine-patina, by gently rubbing it with a silver cleaning cloth (for a very long time) - Looks much better in the end. Having paid 800 Dollars, I'm still pretty happy with my first SA, that happened to be a ground Röhm.

[Larry C]

Hi Jack...if you may ...could you please take a photo of that marking wit the letter within a circle and post it ? Please

Regards Larry

[TheJackal83]

Didn't really want to open it up again, in fear of hurting the nut with repeated manipulation, but I figured I owe you one for all the years that you've been sharing valuable knowledge here on the forum!

Turns out I need some rest: My mind had made a mess of what I saw just yesterday already: It's not a circle, but rather a diamond shape, with something inside it. Unfortunately there was rust in that crossguard as well, so the pitting makes it difficult to make out what it is. But maybe experience can fill in the blanks (pits)?

The circle was on the tang and memory failed me on the upper too: It's not HE, just H.

[Larry C]

Hi Jack ...I will look into that diamond marking tonight ...also that letter "H" can be found on other produced daggers and will list them for you later as well...as I am currently at work.

Yet the style of the accent grooves on that "H' marked guard...still may point to Eickhorn

A5 is correct for a foundry mark as Pack used a few different "A" markings

Thanks for the photos Bro

Regards Larry