German Dagger Scabbard Tip, Oak Leaf design no screw holes, metal detector find.

[DDD]

Those example fittings are not mine, the picture was downloaded from a web site, I thought they looked cheap but I also thought they were supposed to be real, attached is a picture of the one I own, and here is a link showing that oak leaf motif ss honor scabbards do exist.

Dagger, Sword, and Bayonet Scabbards, Shells, and Screws

[Larry C]

Ok Now this has turned into an SS thread so lets examine this again. The scabbard fittings on an SS honor dagger had 2 types,, the scalloped and the oak leaf motif. ,,again let me quote my own words from the 2nd post ( quote ) IMO I feel that the oak leaves are a little on the fat side compared to SA/SS Honor daggers. ( quote )
This fact still stands true even on the SS scabbard fittings. The metal detector find that was found in "some guys"yard does not support enough evidence of Authenticity,, although it shows a likeness of an SS fitting. So now the question,, and for the advanced collectors reading this ,, it has been stated The SS Honor dagger scabbard mounts were not a separate part but a part that was incorporated onto the scabbard during the scabbard shell stamping. (( An all in one stamping process )) From that point the scabbard shell was brazed together and cleaned up before the fine grained black leather was applied. ( Wittmanns SS Reference pg 287 paragraph 2 ) This is one of the main reasons why you do not see scabbard screws sticking out on this type of dagger.
So if this is an Authentic scabbard fitting please show supporting documentation. In your link from Tom Johnson, he also states in matter of fact that the "Upper fitting" he has for sale had scabbard screws. Regards Larry

[Scout]

Im sorry to say that the example on the left is not original. These were a high honor to receive one of these honor daggers. The fittings alone were made of silver. The blade is a fine Damascus maiden hair pattern with "raised" gilded motto and trademark . The fittings on authentic examples were scalloped. I have not seen a true High leaders dagger with oak leaves on the scabbard fittings ,, only scalloped. If they do exist on an authentic example please post it! The examples shown are a cheap plated variety and hardly passable as a good repro. Fact: These daggers where made of quality material and craftmanship. These were not hand assembled by the thousands. True market value of these today will start around $55,000. below is an example of a Chained SA high leaders dagger. look and see on your examples that you posted if the silvering is lifting from the metal. Do you have these in your posession?

Follow this link as one here is listed by Lakesidetrader

That Lakeside honour dagger - WOW!

[StuG III]

The Spanish connection might be correct. This looks remarkably similar to what was used by Denix on their SS Honours Dagger Replicas.
Sorry about the picture, only one I could find.

Tom

[DDD]

Wow, This probably is a replica, when I found it and dug it up it was facing with the open end up with the top being about 3" deep, as if someone stuck the scabbard into the Florida soft sandy ground and pulled it back put not realizing that the fitting was still in the ground, Thanks to Larry C for all the great information.

[Larry C]

The Spanish copies that are mass produced had their fittings "Glued " in place. A few hot and cold seasons are enough to crack and dry any glue. These copies were just that,,Copies!! No craftmanship no heart and soul and no meaning of a cause. The junk that is made today represents nothing! The swastika that is used today is only stolen from History to scam the unknowing out of their hard earned cash. These so called repros that are Spanish made or are found in a junk magazines are only phantom reminders. Nothing else,,, they look nice and twinkle and sparkle,, but they are hollow with no promise of authenticity. Still the part that you found is still useful DDD,,,,as it can be used as a reference tool if this hobby interests you. I have to give you credit as you did research by posting a photo of 2 comparable types of scabbard fittings. You have done more than most new visitors to the forum, and all they ask is it real? and nothing else. I give credit to you also Regards Larry

[SAMann]

Hello DDD,

What you have found here is a lower fitting for a late 60's- mid 70's Reproduction of an honor dagger made by Martos in Spain. So, I guess it is Spanish after all. The Original TR Honor Daggers similar to this were made with two piece scabbards that incorporated the Oak Leaf fittings into the body of the scabbard as a single unit. The two halves of the scabbard were stamped from Brass and then soldered together so that the fittings and the scabbard shell ended up as one piece. They did not have any scabbard screws and the top piece with the runners was press fitted. I think I may have one or two of these fittings lying around in my pile and will see if I can find one to take a pic for you.

SAMann

[gerrit]

Hello DDD,

What you have found here is a lower fitting for a late 60's- mid 70's Reproduction of an honor dagger made by Martos in Spain. So, I guess it is Spanish after all. The Original TR Honor Daggers similar to this were made with two piece scabbards that incorporated the Oak Leaf fittings into the body of the scabbard as a single unit. The two halves of the scabbard were stamped from Brass and then soldered together so that the fittings and the scabbard shell ended up as one piece. They did not have any scabbard screws and the top piece with the runners was press fitted. I think I may have one or two of these fittings lying around in my pile and will see if I can find one to take a pic for you.

SAMann

Hahahaha, funny... a ten year old post revived
DDD long left the building......

Join Date09-14-2012
Last Activity 09-21-2012 03:30 AM

Cheers
Ger

[SAMann]

Hey Gerrit, Yeah, I noticedd the date right after I posted the reply. Duh! It is HELL getting Old!

SAMann

[SAMann]

When you get to be as old as me, 10 years is just a few seconds in the grand Scheme, anyway.