Highly personalized Sa dagger...some doubts

[lucabrnroma]

Hi all...going around online i saw this dagger ...highly personalized, but there's a enormous difference of conditions between the blade and the rest of the dagger...parts dagger or fantasy piece?
Thanks a lot

[dzyner]

Ya, I agree, the blade condition against the rest of the dagger appears quite different (based on the limited detail in your photos at least). We can't even see the fit of the blade shoulders to the lower guard in the photos. I think this is one of those daggers that must be handled to know for sure. I've personally handled similar daggers that are completely authentic period personalized so it is plausible that this one is good - at least in part. That said, the photos you posted are far from high enough quality to make even a modest judgement call in my opinion. Others may be able to shed more light on the dagger (no pun intended).

[Larry C]

scroll down 6 posts on this on going thread on the GDC

Decorated SA. Real or fake?? - GermanDaggers.com

My questions for discussion:
1. are there a market for these fancy jimmied up daggers by Renegade SA men?
2. Is this allowed to have that sporty ornate look to them? Are they High Leadership approved?
3. Who gets to wear them..or is the size of the wallet that matters?

better photos below

[lucabrnroma]

thanks all...my dioubt is ...why are popping out many of them in this period?

[gerrit]

thanks all...my dioubt is ...why are popping out many of them in this period?

Lots of skilled craftsman lost their job the last few years due the recession....perhaps someone is trying to earn a few bucks?

Ger

[Frogprince]

Lots of skilled craftsman lost their job the last few years due the recession....perhaps someone is trying to earn a few bucks?

Ger

This was also true during the 1960/70's and earlier when skilled artisans in the gun making trade were out of work - and old "beater" daggers could be found to enhance at very little cost to help maintain their skills while also providing some income. Best Regards, Fred

[lucabrnroma]

Many thanks guys..i had the same suspect ... but someone else did not and took it for 4000 euros

[dzyner]

Having reviewed the new photos that Larry posted (thanks Larry), I still think this dagger has a good shot at being completely legit and period personalized as I originally stated. Obviously someone else agrees with me since they paid 4000 Euro for it. Only someone with the skills to determine period custom craftsmanship from modern post war can say for sure, and my guess is whoever purchased it liked what they saw.

While I can certainly understand those who would say daggers like these are nothing more than practice pieces for skilled craftsman in troubling economic times, I question how much reward would be gained from such intricate and grueling work during down economic periods such as a recession when folks don't have money to spend anyway. If this were done yesterday that would be another story since 4000 EUR is a lot to gain from a dagger that without the customizations would be worth 350 EUR on a good day. That said, I think even a modestly experienced dagger collector could at least tell if this dagger was customized in the last decade (if reviewed in hand).

Any time we see daggers like these that are not "standard" we'll see traditional collectors shy away from them, and with good reason. Very few collectors I know would take the kind of risk necessary to pay the prices for them unless they believe them to be legit. My hat's off to whoever purchased it and took that risk. I personally believe (eventually) the new owner will be rewarded with solid proof that these daggers were accepted (likely only in the higher ranks where few would question them), be it a period photo that surfaces, or other documentation. Regardless, I wish it was in my collection. If nothing else it would make a heck of nice display piece

[gerrit]

#Dzyner it all comes down to 1 point: do you believe it is the real deal or not.......
No doubt this handwork has been done with great skills, but what Always amazes me are little details that doesnt make sense...
They indeed pop up quite a bit lately, thats disturbing, as they should be one of a kind or have provenence.
Some of these early NSKK daggers honour daggers are seen with alu eagles in the grip, yet the entire build is nickel silver..why?
lets look at this one: the blade and scabbard, they both have a lot of wear, the blade is realy bad, as the scabbard they both suffered of moisture, they have stains etc. ........ but the grip is totally mint, strange because wood normally tells a story!
No signs of moisture, no stains in the wood.
To me that is disturbing.....but as said it all comes down to believe.

I have inspected one of these NSKK honour daggers in hand and i most admitt they look great, are they convinsing to me without provenence?
Well i'll keep that to myself, everyone most make their own judgement when it come to daggers like these.....

Regards
Ger

[dzyner]

...everyone must make their own judgement when it come to daggers like these.....

We do agree on this