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SA Dagger advice

Article about: I bought my first dagger from a local man who claims his father brought it back from the war. I have no reason to doubt his words. None of the parts look replaced although a peculiar detail

  1. #1

    Default SA Dagger advice

    I bought my first dagger from a local man who claims his father brought it back from the war. I have no reason to doubt his words. None of the parts look replaced although a peculiar detail - the gau mark looks to be Ns for Niedersachsen, but according to this Ns is not one of the gau marks associated with this manufacturer. Unfortunately, a member of the family that liked the look of the eagle and roundel pried them out of the grip. I am told that the dagger hasn't been cleaned while in possession of the family, but the darkening on the motto has been completely worn away and there's no visible crossgrain so someone at some point must have cleaned it somehow. Initially I thought the scabbard was in relatively good shape since it seems to have kept its color. However, upon having a closer look at it at home I noticed there is a crack in the upper side of it. I'm not familiar with how there things were fabricated. I know the fittings of the scabbard are nickel, but is the body itself nickel? Is brittleness (as the cracking indicates) normal? Here are the pics:

    SA Dagger advice
    SA Dagger advice
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    SA Dagger advice
    SA Dagger advice
    SA Dagger advice
    SA Dagger advice

    Anyway, when I bought this dagger for 300 USD I knew it wasn't going to be an investment. Just the denazification destroys its market value in the eyes of collectors. I bought this so I could own a piece of history and put it on display in my room. I'd like to add back the eagle and roundel, clean the blade, and protect it from rust. The beginnings of the rust are already visible under the hilt and I know if I do not clean it off now it's only going to get worse. I need some advice:

    1. From reading these boards I have heard "flitz" is a good product for removal of rust? Is this the best product to use? What is the technique one should use while cleaning the blade? What should I use, a cloth, toothbrush, or something else? Should I use any fine grit sandpaper to remove the bits of rust or will it come out on its own? What way should I polish the blade, in the direction of the length of the blade or perpendicular? The dark tint on the Alles fur Deutschland etch is completely gone now but will cleaning the blade damage the etch itself? Are there specific cleaning methods to avoid damaging the etch? What is the other staining seen on the blade anyway? Most of it didn't look like rust. If it had a lot of rust I would not even have bought the dagger but it looked to me like it could easily be cleaned.

    2. It doesn't look like the dagger was disassembled to me but I do not know what to look for besides the fact that the handle and crossguards fit perfectly together. Should I disassemble the dagger to clean it?

    3. Is the damage to the scabbard abnormal (the crack on the side)? Is it indicative of a fake? What about the unusual gau mark not associated with the manufacturer?

    4. How do I keep this dagger from deteriorating further? I know that the obvious thing to do is not to keep it inside the scabbard. What else?

    5. Does it matter which way the dagger fits into the scabbard**? Unfortunately, right after bringing this thing back I already had a family member "inspect" it when I was out of the house and place it back in the scabbard** the wrong way.

    Any other comments are welcome. This is the first dagger I bought.

    Edit: By the way, regarding the thread I previously made on this board about a grip I bought... I did buy it with the "nefarious" intention of replacing the grip on this dagger in order to restore it... after seeing the perfect way that the grip on this dagger fits the crossguards, I cannot bring myself to do that. I think it would be better to hold out for an eagle and roundel to pop up for sale somewhere, or to buy a completely destroyed grip with the eagle/roundel intact (the grip I bought is in too good a shape to mangle it).
    Last edited by solovei; 08-09-2020 at 04:24 AM.

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  3. #2

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    The Gruppe mark list is not complete to this date and there is room for discussion to add any new SA gruppes to the list depending upon the condition and overall fit of the dagger. I would say after viewing this bad conditioned SA dagger that the Ns gruppe mark could be added.

    I would not change the grip and would leave the original in place as you had already over paid for a water damaged blade and a grip with removed National emblems.

    I would leave the dagger alone as it is and would wait for another opportunity to seek a decent SA example. You may not be able to sell this dagger or even give it away as the blade and grip insignia are the face of the dagger. Yet..the dagger is all early period and original.

    Regards Larry

    Flitz or simichrome will remove any topical dirt and other detriments..but will not restore the blade to full lustre..the water marks and fingerprint smudges are there forever.
    Another $300 US would of given you a half decent early SA example.
    Wagner & Lange ..although is rated in the middle of a rarity scale as common...in the current market place..is alot rarer to find.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  4. #3

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    Darn shape it is not complete. Don't know why someone would remove the emblems. As we all know these S/A and NSKK daggers have greatly increased in value over the years. In fact so has most milsurp items increased lately.

  5. #4
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    Dagger is original, leave it like it is. But sorry to say you waste your money. As Larry said 300 $ more and you have had an decent one.

    Ron

  6. #5

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    I know I'll probably make the more experienced members here cringe but the temptation to see what the dagger would look like after a polishing was too great for me to overcome. I used flitz and a microfiber cloth to polish the blade. I also used q-tips at the top of the blade where there was active rust which worked out really well in my opinion. Unfortunately without disassembling the hilt I couldn't avoid polishing the underside of the crossguard. There was also a spot of verdigris on the crossguard that I removed that was to the right of the gruppe stamp. You can see where it left a pin sized hole. I may end up fully polishing the fittings since I suspect there is more active verdigris hidden behind the wood grip, we I can see some green at the connection between the metal and wood. I also want to make sure there's not any more rust on the blade that's concealed by the hilt.
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    It's hard to capture in photograph because my phone camera isn't very good but the tang nut shows signs of damage, as though someone was trying to unscrew it with the wrong instrument. This dagger has taken a lot of abuse.
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    SA Dagger advice

    There is also a weird looking stain at the blade edge that you may be able to see in the third photo (at the bottom of blade, under the maker mark). That "stain", which is too hard to show in detail in a photo as it would require a severe closeup, looks like scratches. I am not sure if someone tried to sand or grind that area trying to sharpen the blade, it's definitely sharper at the base than towards the tip.

  7. #6
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    Put it on eBay and sell it . First rule of buying daggers is a nice clean blade and complete undamaged grip . So all the good bits in your SA are no more .tis a shame . No offense. Rob

  8. #7

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    You can see where the runner marks rested on the blade under heavy moisture and damp conditions.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

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