SA dagger (determining the authenticity)
Hi guys, I’m new here and I seek help in determining the authenticity of the SA dagger. I have the dagger with mark of RICH.& E. HARTKOPF SOLINGEN and I have some questions. Was the handle covered by lacquer in that enterprise? The dagger also has mark Om, but as far as I know, it was marked with Nm on that enterprise. What can you say about Om and its meaning? I’ll post photo I did personally. Thank you in advance!
It is original and rare SA dagger, nice on alsoOnly, scabbard is not original for this dagger, it is painted RZM scabbard. Anodized scabbard is proper for this dagger.
Yes, the grip has covered with laquer from factory. It has still some of it left.
"om" is for SA Gruppe Ostmark. I had seen other Rich. Hartkopf SA dagger with the same Gruppe mark, all is good here
-TJ-
Thanks a lot for your knowledge, I’m very glad that you determined the authenticity. And what about scabbards, the photos were made in poor lightning. I’ll make photos in better lightning and post them.
Kind regards,
Anatoliy
Hello DR ....yes I would like to see better photos of the scabbard in better lighting....I am leaning on this scabbard possibly being anodized ....as I have seen varied hues of brown and almost purple as seen with your example..I just want to see the scabbard color only ...and the fittings we can dicuss afterwards.
Please if you may provide better photos of the scabbard.
Regards Larry
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
Hello Larry, thank you for paying attention to my request, I have done some photos of the scabbard (sorry for my bad english, it’s not native to me). I would be thankful for your opinion
Thank you for extra photos. Looks like scabbard is painted
-TJ-
Agreed painted
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
Hi, Larry thanks for your reply. I need your advice. I found a store that used to sell the SA dagger that I own today. In the photo, the scabbard is complete, not painted, but anodized. What do you think, should I look for an anodizing scabbard? Please advise where to look. Thank you.
Early Rich. Hartkopf SA Dagger | Lakesidetrader
Hi Dr Ak
Its a 50 / 50 gamble that the bottom of the crossguard would meet the upper scabbard fitting tightly with no gaps showing in the middle or on the left and right side.
Depending where the producer either purchased outside or in house produced ...it was the goal of that producer to make sure it was a tight fit.
Late production SA daggers ...the requirements were not as strict and we see slight gapping in those areas.
My first SA dagger was found in 1980 at a flea market..Early Ernst Pack SA dagger with a late period scabbard.
Fortunately for me I live 20 minutes from Tom Wittmanns home..and I was actually able to bring my dagger to him and find the right fit Scabbard.
So with your dagger ...you will not be sure if it will be a perfect fit or not...and thats the gamble. Not all upper scabbard throat fittings are the same for each producer..but again depending upon the specifications the producer required if bought from a sub contractor..it had to fit well before it was purchased and shipped to the SA.
The other issue is ..each scabbard has a set of runners inside them...and depending where that scabbard came from...some runners will be very tight to where its quite difficult to push it all the way in..to some where they are loose and if you turn the dagger upside down..the dagger will fall out. A medium tension fit would be best.....so on 2 points ...you dont know the curvature of the scabbard throat fitting and also the tension of the internal scabbard runners.
So as I said..its a choice you need to make with a 50 / 50 chance.
Im not telling you not to purchase it...but I want to make aware to you ..the details I stated above of the possibilities that you may or may not encounter. The choice is yours.
Regards Larry
An example of a not so good scabbard throat to lower guard fit
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
Good afternoon Larry, thank you for your knowledge and experience. Your advice helped me a lot. I will go to meetings of collectors and see what they offer. maybe I can find a scabbard that will fit. I'm going to the gathering of collectors 07.09 2023 / Wirges. If you have a person who has a SA sheath from an early period or an SS dagger in good condition from an early period and you can introduce me to him, I will be obliged to you. I have a desire to buy a good dagger. Thank you.
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